Canada's pension system is simply not doing the job, authors say

As a small business owner, I find the comment -"businesses are unwilling to shoulder these steadily increasing costs" inaccurate. Small businesses are unable to shoulder these increasing costs. We have lost so many small businesses -- many family run -- with many more barely hanging on. Time for people to take a step back from the money tree and become more responsible for their own financial security.

You know,even a kid in grade 2 can do the math to figure out that there are more people taking out of the system than putting anything in.Of course the result is financial disaster.Duh!!! If the feds back 30 years ago had have had half a brain they would have seen that the baby boomers(retirees) would eventually out number the working population! Why wasn't that money collected being put into savings vehicles like they always harp we should be doing to ensure retirement funds.What a cop out.I don't know about anyone else but I am having a hard time walking in my 50's and it isn't because of health problems.It's because of being raped repeatedly from behind by all these genius politicians and their lousy planning.And what I will receive in CPP after 50 years plus working won't even come near an MP's golden pension after what? Maybe 10 years in Parliament? Can you pass the vaseline please?

Too bad they don't "teach" financial responsibility in school.Instead the banks and credit card companies hand students cards and let them charge until they are already hopelessly in debt by the time they graduate.And then try to find something that after graduation that pays.I see a lot of coddled financially ignorant spoiled kids out there that want mommy and daddy to pay for everything because times are so tough.Boohoo.Try setting down the $100.00 a month cell phone from texting for a minute and take a look around to check out the real world!Your financial future won't be secured by having a stereo,X-box,cell phone and video's in your room day and night.Try to remember that people died for you spoiled brats to enjoy a country thats protected.I bet your grandparents had to work their tail off but were happy without having toys and stuff piled all over to keep themselves amused for 5 minutes.Start using your head and get in the game.We need smarter future generations to help fix the mess that irresponsible politicians have gotten us into.If you're not part of the solution,you're part of the problem.

I agree that the CPP needs to be enhanced. It is forced retirement savings to ensure people can live above the poverty line when they retire. After that objective is reached the gravy will be your company or personal retirement plan.
My tax money should not go to someone who squandered their money in their working years.

to mrken the ndp have NEVER had control of federal government and the best provincial government in canada was the saskatchewan NDP government under Allan Blakeney until the cons took over and ran the province into the red. and to the rest of the uninformed any mandadory money you get deducted from your pay check is a tax. the government collects it puts it into general revenue and wastes it instead of using it for what it was intended.

I am just coming up on 60......I gave 29 years to the Military and am receiving a Military pension. When I start collecting Pension at 65, the government cuts my Military Pension by just a little more than what I will get from the Old Age Pension. I had also seen what a immigrant to our country receives so I think I will apply for Refugee status at 65......

Please reduce the CPP! I'd rather manage my own retirement savings/income and the slackers that CPP is going towards. and will do it better then the government. I'm so sick of the gov't protecting people from themselves. We all agree the gov't wastes our money so why give them more? Just give me the 4 other families I am too support and I will do it better then any other social service our there.

Why not link CPP and EI as a common account? If you work all your life and never collect EI why should you not have a better pension in the end?

Unfortunately, I do not think it should be called a pension plan. I have contributed $56,000 to my CPP (both mine and my employers contributions) since 1995. If I work another 9 years and continue to contribute $3,350 (yearly average) to CPP and it was invested to return 5% per year, there would be approximately $320,000 in the CPP fund for me to withdraw. Unfortunately, if I die after year 8, I get nothing. My spouse my get the survivor benefit but that only depends on how much she receives for her CPP. So where does my money go? Not my spouse, not my kids - at least my RRSP can be cashed in and given to my kids.

@ Carrie
Seriously...you applied for disability for a bad knee??!!
I have paid into CPP for 37 years....I'm 53 years old. I have had two total knee replacements in two years!! I never stopped working but for the 8 weeks total I needed off for the recovery of them both. I can relate to your pain and suffering as I did it for 8 years prior to my first surgery (42)....but disability??!! Wow. I'm sorry, but it's not a debilatating disease.
I've watched my CPP deductions go up and up over the years. Last year I was informed that I'll now have to wait an extra TWO years before I can collect my CPP because they're in fear of the fund and too many people collecting all at once. I have NO trust whatsoever that there will be any money left in the fund when I can finally collect....which may be years later if they keep going like this. I work hard....I was single mom...have a mortgage....don't have a wonderful husband to pay my bills. I never once considered leaching off the disability plan. I worked around my issues and just kept paying my bills, leaving very little disposable income for savings. Am I whining? NO. I'll be fine because I work hard and don't depend on anyone to bail me out.
Wow, sorry for the diatribe.....I still cannot get over one knee replacement equaling a disability cheque.

Pension plans have got o be the most insidious type of retirement programs-basically the employer/government says the following: Give me your money and I will take care of you when you retire. What a bald faced lie-the original intention may have been genuine, but once they have their hands on your/our money, the temptation is too great and the funds get used for other projects, some good, some nefarious. Companies go bankrupt (Nortel), and governments just raise taxes to make up shortfalls. Look how the unemployment funds get drained regularly. It is us and the employers who fund the program, yet it is the government that makes the rules, lowers admissibility and denies claims. We have no choice when it comes to CPP or other provincial programs, but it shows you that you must get involved with your retirement and fund the shortfalls through RRSP`s, investments and savings. Do not depend on others to fund your retirement.

I would like CPP reduced, not increased. I can do a better job of saving for my future...and that's a great idea....I've never collected EI either, why can't I have a portion of those funds back.

CPP - Can't Pay Pension. Soon to be!

Government Should not be allowed to take the pension monies to support other than the Pension one is supposed to receive (which is now not the case). Had I invested the annual CPP payments of myself and my Company(s) over the past 45 years of contributing I would now have close to a million dollars in the plan. Instead I will be lucky to collect about (after tax) $90,000 and less should I die as my family cannot receive those monies that I worked for to contribute.

It should be a locked and untouchable amount of monies given to the Government. An annual statement of Revenue received and rate of return achieved. Then show the amount paid out for the year and the net Total moving into the next year.....
If a Company has a pension plan for employees, nobody gets a full pension, either immediately or at 65, after only 8 years of working for the Company - So why do our elected officials? It is just like any other job? I guess not.
Why and How is it different? We can get fired and we can fire them etc. but......

No tax on Gov. Pensions - more benefit than taxing as it is put back into the economy rather into supporting immigrants etc. My parents were never supported when they immigrated to Canada over 60 years ago. My parents had to save and bring money with them to support themselves and family while they searched for work. We came within weeks of having to return, but my Dad finally landed a job and later my Mom.

CPP is something that should not be taxed when we retire and begin collecting it. Also, EI is monies that many of us have paid into and not collected. The Fed needs to repay our monies to us for the EI surplus they improperly took, with interest. That and all EI surplus should then be formulated into the CPP as a means of repayment, as well as a way to further bolster our CPP monies with our EI monies.
Again, not to be taxed.
If the average citizen cannot rely on the Government to represent them, then there needs to be a Third Party involved in our money management that will represent ONLY us in these important matters. That, or the Government must be made to understand that in matters such as this, we are not its servants--the reverse is the case.

Maybe they should bring in more foreign workers and immigrants that have contributed nothing to the pension plan but still get full benefit s .It's time the govt stopped handing out and should start taking care of seniors.

blah

to "lucky" . Sorry, that attitude comparing to the USA is EXACTLY what is part of a huge problem when it comes to attitude. We are not the USA and you can't waste time comparing to other countries. What, we shouldn't fight for whats right because "it's better then the US"??. By that logic, we should all cower in our homes and be happy and not complain because most of the world lives like crap. 30,000 kids dying every day since I can remember and I'm 53. Women are oppressed as well so maybe they should shut up because it's "worse in most of the world". Dangerous, flawed reasoning. Fight for whats right and the hell with comparisons to other parts of the world!

CPP is just an intergenerational compulsory ponzi scheme. If you are a millennial, it is effectively a tax because it will be bankrupt by the time we're supposed to collect it. I'm glad it's capped. It should be capped lower (0 ideally, ditto for EI). Or you should at least be able to opt out. In my opinion, every individual should be responsible for earning their own living and should not be beholden to the government.

The money taken from someone in my income group by the CPP fraudsters over a working life should payout at least 3 times a much in monthly cheque upon retirement. Most Canadians simply do not seem to understand the level to which we are being ripped off by this disgusting plan which is feeding its bearacracy and paying a mere pittance, a fraction of what should be returned. We need a government that will manage the fund properly, and pay retirees what they need and deserve. I am paying enough now.They simply steal the majority of it or pay out to people who aren't paying in.

Can't have a totally upwardly mobile society. The association of the deans of universities made a cutting, yet true statement about what they are creating in the allegedly "professional" realm, under corporate control. Find the statement yourselves..see yourselves.
It is also a true statement that when government and corporate regime meld, we see fascism, corruption, waste, resource pillaging, pollution, substandard housing for the inferiors, they being everyone not sitting in a corporate ceo chair or ..ya..and parliament. Add religiosity to the mix and it becomes absolute bigotry, criminality, inhumanity to man, over exploitation, oppression, holocausts, genocides..geebus..
There is a psyco dynamic also equally true..repressed and not so repressed sadistic authoritarianism, police states, poverty, ignorance, hatred, fear, frustration and hopelessness, eventually outright revolutions. Ah Mousolini..hang em high now and change the world.
Harper is a defacto dictator all for Geebus and the almighty corporate dollar. Endless growth is insanity. This planet belongs to mankind and all creatures to use, inhabit, and preserve for future owners, your decendants, decending into mindless, rightless slavery.
The Papists created this monolithic farce of greed and power mongering.
Funny how when the globalists, using the elected traitor puppets, seems to kill off their torture and terrorist darlings, leave no witnesses, created by the C regime itself to make your life a hell and feed you me and everyone else crap cradle to grave.
Rewatch the Matrix and try to see the message of the medium hidden in plain sight within it. I know, you don't really want to understand global dynamics, rather watch some crap tv show instead or get hooked on the religion of ideologies, a multitude of fictions themselves to deceive and manage the herd...that is what these pillars of greed call us the little people on whose backs they get fat and ugly.
Many years ago, piqued by the freeman on land movement, I began to research these things myself.
I called the Ministry of Finance and asked a beercrat if the birth certificate is a financial instrument, a stock certificate. This was before the Liar Martin and Harper, Mulroney, et all ( all the politicos are guilty of treason) and I was told, verbatum, well, yes it is. SO i asked can I get control of this stock and trust account ( which actually pays all the bills in canada supported by resource pillaging and squandering ) The answer I got was, re control, yes you can, it is difficult but not impossible..so I asked how much is it worth ? I was told 200..being a small thinker I asked, what 200 bucks? After a sly chuckle I picked up on right then, I was told ah, ya, 200 bucks. :)
Today, well last I looked at the data, we are each worth about 400 grand every three months, plus a base line figure about 18 million to possible billions of dollars. All this looted wealth is divided up among the politicians, mla's, mp's et al.
If you want a real shocker go to detaxcanada.org .com. .net and read the facts..then weep..this regime will never tell the truth and lose that power or control. We have to take it back..govern ourselves as it behooves us as the alleged superior life form on this rock and sadly put a bullet in the brain of every psychopath, politician, cop, service person who would kill his own people in their defense, all their allies globally, like China..co governance with China spells deathh to Canadians who rock the boat..you..me and the small numbers of thinkers and doers digging up the dirt as journalists used to do and don't, they have obscene mortgages to pay, university degrees for the spoiled little shits they spawn and the social climbiing idiots currently passig themselves off as defenders of the right..
So people, either grow a spine or shut up and enjoy your slavery and oppressive regimes from hell. Organised crime runs planet earth..the worst people to have power ..enjoy it right now.
Any politician under law who lies to, steals from, harms a Canadian in anyway is guilty of treason and perhaps could be hung for it.:) Harper's bane there..better Duffy and PAm and that traitorBrazear hang than him eh..:P) Injuns hate that too mutts whiteman back stabber :)
And besides what would you expect from an every man for himself world and society in the west ?
The starving in africa starve by design..they waste away by design from polluted waters, air, foods..the medicines we take are just poisons etc etc..high priced poisons.
True too, the last to know they are insane are the insane and the people who are in general denial that insanity even exists..:0) It a bloody norm around here, north America, the world, nut bars every where, catering to the c plus average idiot works for the pigs too. The gifted are brutalised into working for the man, and his intellect used to destroy more of us.
The NAU holds more horrors for the little people, a Harper view of you too, like NO pensions at all, no health care, no welfare to the poor or disabled, no student loans, only rich kids get educated, the brutalised victims of a brutally greed driven power structure that believes they own us, the land the air the wealth, all for them..while you will be euthanized, worthless wastes of air we are..in their eyes..reptilian eyes, reptilian words, figuritively speaking.:)
Corporate rule. Global governance, religion, population reduction by any means according to Kissinger, advisor to presidents of quasi usa. America Corporate. Hand puppets elected by deluded fools. YOU..:)
Go ahead chickens, research NAU and see the ugly truth of your misplaced trust and sickened paradigm views, cradle to grave mind screwing works.
You conforming clones, chewing lawn grass and not questioning the norms of this nut bar culture make it all possible..
Native American and proud of it..enjoying my 200 dollar pension and Old Age security, GIS..and all the cash I can stuff into my matress from diverse means...worthless cash in fact promissary notes..not even real currencies.. fiat fraud.
Defacto..fictional..coup de tete government aided by corporate zillions to capture our governments and suck us dry..so what ya gonna do..keep crying or start acting..stay home..that's it..all stay home.
Let it collapse then massacre the dirty pigs who are laughing at you daily..suckers, cause they are gonna sooner or later put a bullet in your brains.:)
Immigration to displace the native born citizens as in Europe using the muslims..dirty business. All victims of your own cowardice and I don't fight for you sheep any more. :) On your own. Enjoy the future hurtling at you like a run away tank.:)
You all deserve it..you created it..clones. Duh. The majority is always wrong these days..brain washed.
Hahahah..I got my ground, my land it will feed me..my tribe will defend me..my spirit will advise me..
you..are the walkin talkin dead anddon't know it yet :0)
Happy day conformists..:) Ya haven't got the nuts to change anything at all..:) Go vite for futility.. or..:0) heh..what ?
Thimk.. try I know you could if you wanted to..create a heaven on earth, what CAnada was before the Christers got their bigot hands on it...but you won't..you like your slavery..wage slaves..suckers for punishment..
Duffy and his dope dealer, gang member friend and some times driver..??? Geebus christmas..are yee all daft ?? Kline..another Hells sucking loser..know him well. :) Audit all the senators. Charge the persoans of interest and give them their day in court not this Iranian/ neoliberal convict govt of the hour now :) joke fest in the media owned by the same people own Harper Fuhrer. Good bye Deepak..Good by Jason..bye bye Monty..you gonna do what toCanadians again ? Hahah..Doesnt speak well Day.. just kill em he says.. and they..the po lice are doing just that..another victim of policing the other day..should stuff those tazers up their keisters and sqeeeeeeze the trigger on em..good cops.. get the hell out and save you selves for later and REAL policing..:)not acting as a death squad for a Hitler, Bush loving liar of the day..they are ALL dirty and hiding terror from you suckers..NAU..doom..nationstate gone long ago..you are dupes.
Drop dead save the man the trouble of gassing you all :)
Office of religious tolerance..office of lunacy tolerance..Ya ! There's more..much much much more you need toknow and never will from Boughtawa..never in a million years..hows that for a editorial ?

To Marg

And I quote:

"I have looked in frustration at the annual "cap" on CPP contributions."

Yes I myself see a time of year when I get a raise in my regular pay once my CPP hits it's maximum. It's a time of year I look forward to when I now have a LITTLE disposable income to enjoy some things with my wife as opposed to living paycheck to paycheck. While we still live paycheck to paycheck, at this time of year we are able to go to an occasional movie or dinner as reward for our hard work all year long.

And.

"So...instead of raising it for all of the poorer workers - why not remove the "cap" Most of those who fall into this priveleged category, also have more than enough to invest in other areas - they can't lose!!!"

For the record I am not privileged. Nor do I make enough to fully invest in other areas as my tax return will attest to. My amount available to contribute to RRSP grows and grows by leaps and bounds as the years pass. Unfortunately I do not make enough to both pay my bills and max this amount out. So despite what you may think...This is not the case.

And:

"They are already set up for retirement with their investments and then they get CPP on top of that. Stop nailing people who are more than stretched to the limit!!!"

No. Incorrect again. I am not set up for retirement and worry greatly about my about my ability to look after myself and my wife when I retire. Just because I exceed my CPP cap each year, does not mean I am rich or well to do as you imply. I work hard all year long every year (for the past 20 years without interruption) and live paycheck to paycheck struggling to meet my bills just the same as the stretched to the limit people you are referring to. Be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush. Not everyone (certainly not the majority as you seem to think) who reaches the CPP limit can afford what you are talking about and I don't appreciate you implying that I have disposable income that should be given to others just because I max out on CPP contributions each year. Look at my house, my car, my clothes and my life and you would understand what I mean. I am far from well to do. I find your comments to be ignorant, biased and without any true knowledge or understanding of what you are saying.

You need to look at ways of providing for yourself in the future and not look to relying on others to do it for you. I will have to find a way to provide for myself, so it is only fair that you do the same. Like you I am stretched to the max. So don't look to me, to look after you.

exactly as rachel i have paid into this system for over 40 years and now i,m coming around to my retirement so i would like some of the monies i have put into this system back for which i deserve not like a welfare person who lives off me all his life to get everything for free maybe some of the government bureaucrats could give some of the money they rip us off to feed their little feast they are on from all the money we working canadians put in to support they,re expensive trips and things

We never get back the money we put into CPP. It is a joke. Teaching people to take care of themselves is something Canada as stopped doing long ago. A nation that depends on its government for everything is not a free nation - it is a slave nation. I would rather have pocketed the money these crooks have taken from me over the years (maybe making a sensible law that requires people to save and do with their money as they please in those savings!!!). That makes more sense than setting up a bunch of overpaid, underworked government workers doling out less than you gave in. Where did it all go? To the bloated system - that's where. I will collect CPP soon and finally start getting back at least part of what I had to put it (as a long time business owner I put in a hell of a lot). And of course, I will be taxed on it. That's just a sad joke. I would have rather not had to deal with this crooked system. So sad people have lost their self-reliance from what I am reading from so many of you. make sure you bow and worship BIG BROTHER every day! Long live BIG BROTHER! Ha! Ha!

get rid of the whole SENATE and there will be lots of money for all of Canada.They are all stealing money from Canadians .Only a few of them are really thinking of doing good for their country.Abolish the SENATE and we will all be in a better state..

CPP is such an important topic. It is too bad that some of the focus on this article has got sort of sidetracked. I understand anger, frustration, and "fed up" attitudes, but this column is not where you will get any satisfaction to what you are venting. Try sending a personal letter or note directly to the Prime Minister's office instead. Pick your battles on the right battlefield.

welcome to the world of greed/selfishness and deceit.
Look around you, no one cares; all these so call financial experts and we are in a mess, its going to get worst soon.
REVOLT

Karmagir : lSoon the government will come and take your rsp out of your bank, wait its happening.
Enjoy it while you can

I think Gordon has his solution about 180 degrees from reality.
These government pensions are a pay as you go funded formula. The fact is - the government used the money. The real solution is to teach people how to live within their means, save at least 10% of what they make and have a lifestyle that they can afford.
Never give the solution to the government - it will never get fixed - and in reality It's Not Their Problem!

I think it would be wise for the federal government to do two things:

1. Discontinue DB plans for its new hires beginning immediately,
2. Enhance the current CPP system by maybe doubling its benefits

Several companies have already changed over to DC plans for new employees and the federal government should be no different. It would be however high unfair to change DB to DC plans for current employees especially those who have less than 10 years to go to retirement. This would cripple their current plans and leave not enough room to adjust in the next few years. But for new employees yes it should be changed immediately to stop the bleeding.

Enhancing CPP benefits would give every working Canadian a fighting chance in retirement. Not enough people save right now and it is too difficult given the recent rise in prices on just about everything. This increase in pricing will only continue especially housing. Time to make enhancements right now.

Do you realize that besides being taxed on CPP, if you are a poor senior on Guaranteed Income Supplement (earning under $16,600.) 50 cents of every dollar of CPP is clawed back. So not only did you pay into the plan, you pay taxes on it by 50% when a low income senior. If you were able to scrape a little for a RRSP, again you are clawed back another 50%. Double dipping all the way to the grave.