The secret fear of some 'Occupy' protestors
Remarkably, the world’s “Occupy” protests haven’t lost steam – look, “Occupy Wall Street” might even be its own trademark soon – but what, really, is the uprising about?
As pissed-off consumers continue their marches in Montreal and otherwise, it appears, at least, that the revolt is aimed at a simple redistribution of wealth. The rich make too much, the poor make too little – let’s spread things around a bit.
But according to two Ivy League professors, there is a surprising psychological element lying deep within the minds of some protesters.
Namely, that many lower-income earners actually oppose income redistribution for fear of making the least money among their peers.
We’ll explain.
*Bing: How many people have turned out to the ‘Occupy’ protests?
So, if we understand that income redistribution would be the inexact process of raising what the lowest-paid worker earns and diminishing what the highest-paid worker earns (in the popular lexicon du jour, “the one per cent”), some are suggesting there is worry among certain salary groups about increasing the pay of the poorest.
According to the research of Ilyana Kuziemko and Michael I. Norton, professors at Princeton and Harvard, respectively, those earning just above what the lowest-income groups make might secretly oppose padding the salaries of those falling below them on the wealth chart.
The two economists call it “last-place aversion.” In their words:
“How does last-place aversion play out with regard to redistribution? In our surveys, we asked Americans whether they supported an increase to the minimum wage, currently $7.25 an hour. Those making $7.25 or below were very likely to support the increase – after all, they would be immediate beneficiaries.
“In addition, people making substantially more than $7.25 were also fairly positive towards the increase. Which group was the most opposed? Those making just above the minimum wage, between $7.26 and $8.25. We might expect people who make just below and just above $7.25 to have similar lifestyles and policy attitudes – but in this case, while those making below $7.25 would benefit if the minimum wage were raised to, say, $8.25, those making just above $7.25 would run the risk of falling into a tie for last place.”
Would you be worried about being leapfrogged, perhaps, by Canadians earning just below you on the wage scale? Courtesy colleague Gordon Powers, plug in your income on this Maclean’s calculator and see where your salary ranks compared to the rest of the country.
By Jason Buckland, MSN Money
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Oct 31, 2021 4:51:43 PM
Quote: “it appears, at least, that the revolt is aimed at a simple redistribution of wealth. The rich make too much, the poor make too little – let’s spread things around a bit.”
Nice try with your socialism psy-op. The movement isn't about redistributing wealth, no matter how much your communist handlers try to channel it in that direction. It is about fundamentally backward economics, which is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, designed to erase the middle class. This form of "financial-terrorism" creates conditions so bad, yet so far removed from those sociopaths who create such conditions, that it unfortunately softens up the simpletons into almost accepting your radical communist ideals – like wealth redistribution. But the fact is, we already have wealth redistribution – except, it only ever gets redistributed in one direction... it is called bailing out the “to-big-to-fails”!
Our so-called “democratic” government, forcibly takes from the poorest ranks of the public (through tax collection), and gives it to private financial-bunglers and fraudsters (the to-big-to-fail)… and then has the audacity to give them tax-breaks that no one else has access to! This is tacit government approval, and encouragement, of racketeering and theft. This is how wealth redistribution has always worked, regardless of the rhetoric it is wrapped up in. So, to anyone out there who believes that wealth redistribution actually means that they will redistribute it from the rich and give it to the poor… perhaps you should peruse the history of Marx, and Lenin. These crafty propagandists also espoused such rhetoric intended for the workers, yet they never worked a day in their lives. They were wealthy socialites who wanted power. And Russians to this day are still waiting for that redistribution which was promised to them.
Anyone who thinks this will be fixed by wealth redistribution… unfortunately; there is no hope for you. You’ve been asleep at the wheel for far too long, and your liberty is now a thing of the past. Welcome to the New World Order. Hope you enjoy the ride.
Posted by: Elmo | Oct 31, 2021 7:49:38 PM
@ Dazed and Confused... You must really be the life of the party !! Whine, whine, whine. Bitch, bitch, bitch. The world is so screwed up that I'm going to spend my time babbling about it on some money blog pulpit so that everyone can see what a complete lunatic I am. Get a life loser, or put yourself out of your self-created misery... the latter being the logical alternative.
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Oct 31, 2021 9:52:44 PM
@ Elmo
Weren't you the one who was so certain that communism fell with the Berlin wall?
It sounds to me like you are having a very lucid moment of self-realization. Probably due to your guilt about being employed by the criminal government, and shame from your absolute lack of historical knowledge. Good for you. No pain, no gain.
Posted by: The guy | Nov 1, 2021 9:30:04 AM
You know I look at a number like $8.25 and think how can anyone survive on that. It's ludicris and disgusting tha someones time has such a low value. I don't care if you mop floors or stock shelves for a living if you spend 40hrs a week devoted to someone else's cause then you should be entitled to a certain living standard that includes, transportation, home ownership, meals, vacations and children. If that person and their cause cannot afford it then too bad it's not a job.
There is nothing to fear for the redistribuion of wealth, the people who stand to gain the most will dump that money right back in and create more demand which will translate to jobs and profits.
Trickle down economics is a scam, it's already been proven to not work.
I make decent money and have recently watched as utilities, taxes and food corporations slowly absorb more and more of my salary as it continues to stagnate for almost 4 years. It's not just my salary either it's eveyone at my company with the exception of the owners, they have no incentives to increase the wage of anyone, because thier fear and greed blind them from the fact that demand for the product we produce would sky rocket if people had more money to buy things~ anything.
Posted by: carl | Nov 1, 2021 9:43:20 AM
Once again I must agree with Dazed and Confused in his assessment, the movement is NOT about the redistribution of wealth by writing an imaginary cheque, its about insuring that the system in place is not being abused, slanted to the benefit of the few. In no way does the movement advocate the removal of the incentive to be rewarded by working hard, the way its suppose to work, not how it works presently. The financial mess was created by so-called professionals who lobbied for de-regulation and then used it to fleece the populace. They are financial terrorists and should be treated as such, they knew better or should have. Now they should pay the price! But what happened is a sympton of the overall system disease where the few control by hook or by crook the financial well being of all the others(soulessly) and they have been running rampant without penalty. Its time to send these terrorists to jail and not the country club. And what puts fire in my ire is that they continue unabated even today, playing russian roulette with everyone's well being, just watch what goes on in a week on the stock market...they are not evaluating value.. they are employing mathematical models to play the numbers with monies that in most cases belongs to the working Joe without any regard.
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Nov 1, 2021 10:04:25 AM
Nicely put carl.
Your key phrase, in my opinion, is "professionals who lobbied...".
Can someone please explain to me how the notion of "lobbying" should fit into a true democracy?? I thought a democracy meant "one man, one vote"...
Wouldn't the fact of legalizing lobbyists mean that we are actually living in a plutocracy??
No wonder that the only people on this forum, who have any praise to speak of, are all government employees, who do nothing all day but check their facebook page, and then have the gall to collect a cheque from the taxpayer for their laziness and parasitic tendencies.
Posted by: maxtastic | Nov 1, 2021 10:54:00 AM
I work for the government and I don't check my facebook all day. I work harder than most people in my field. I dont live a life of luxury, and I even took a pay cut of over a thousand dollars a month when I changed jobs, as well as had to move and transplant my family with very little notice and no choice on my part. I also pay taxes, by the way. A lot of taxes, in fact. As well, I pay into two pensions, maximum contributions to both; again with no choice, and have one of them taken away by a government clawback when I hit 65. I am getting screwed by the same things happening to every one else, so blaming government employees for the mess, or saying we are the ones defending the fatcats at the top, is rude and disrespectful. I detest them as much as you do, if not more, as I am one of the ones who has to fight and die to protect everyone in this nation, should it ever come to that. I will do it proudly, and sacrifice for you all, but I have to protect them, too. Its up to you guys to aim your rallies and spite at the right folks. Lets not sqabble down here at the bottom, lets be together here. I have no voice in the protests because I'm not allowed, but you guys are my voice there. Be together in this, and fight for me on the political battlefield, and I'll fight on the other one for you.
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Nov 1, 2021 12:55:59 PM
@ maxtastic
I quote you: "I detest them as much as you do, if not more..."
I quote you: "I am one of the ones who has to fight and die to protect everyone in this nation, should it ever come to that. I will do it proudly, and sacrifice for you all, but I have to protect them, too."
Say what?? You will “sacrifice for us all” ?? (LOL) “you have to protect them too…”???
You make me sick. You are a disgusting parasite.
You say you “detest them”, yet you still work for them. You are a sickening hypocrite who values a grotesque government paycheck (blood money) over ethics and morals. In fact, you have no soul when you feel obligated to protect criminals who you know are purposely harming their own citizens (YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN), and you even admit that you “detest” them… yet you still put on the uniform like a good little zombie. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I quote you: "Its up to you guys to aim your rallies and spite at the right folks."
You are an abomination, sir! It is only up to us, is it? How is that supposed to happen when you protect those who control the media, who are then easily able to skew opinion by painting legitimate protesters as “jobless hippies”? How is that supposed to happen when your comrades (the boys in blue) use excessive force, and kettling… not to mention chemical weapons, which are banned by the Geneva Convention (tear gas etc – yes, look it up) – and use them on protesters? But it doesn’t stop there, because then you fools will mindlessly go overseas to topple governments who ALLEGEDLY are cracking down on protesters!! WTF???
THIS MUST BE THE TWIGHLIGHT ZONE – MAXTASTIC – YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!
I quote you: "I have no voice in the protests because I'm not allowed"
You have no voice because you are not allowed??? Do you even understand what you are typing?? You are not allowed??? And you continue to work for these sociopaths??? You continue to “fight for democracy” (LOL) wearing that stupid hypocritical uniform?? You deserve to be hung!! YES I SAID HUNG!!! Because, if you knew anything about history you would know what went down at the Nuremburg Trials! We condemned, AND HUNG, countless Nazi’s for using the “Nuremburg Defense” – which is essentially what you are invoking when you testify that you are only doing your job.
This is the Nuremburg Defense, which means you are just as guilty as those you serve. It was established that the Nuremburg Defense is no defense at all, and we hung those Nazi’s – just like what should be done this time around!
I quote you: "fight for me on the political battlefield, and I'll fight on the other one for you"
You fight nothing - except your own countrymen, because you are on the side of darkness. You even say yourself that you can see the injustice, yet you choose to continue to wear the zombie’s uniform. You disgust me!
Wake up you sickening waste of skin.
If you detest them so much, it is you moral obligation to resign in protest. Not doing so means that you are nothing more than a soulless, mindless, drone… a robot of the State… and therefore a minion of Satanism.
Good luck, you treasonous traitor!
Posted by: Nick Montpetit | Nov 1, 2021 1:20:40 PM
Seriously, all you people complaining about not getting paid enough? How about you get off your asses and go and learn a profession that will allow society to pay you more. Tired of flipping burgers and getting paid minimum wage? Well it sounds like you want to just keep flipping those burgers and demand more money for it. These Occupy-'insert city' are making you lower class look lazy and demanding.
Posted by: Abused Taxpayer | Nov 1, 2021 3:02:10 PM
Tired of Nick the prick's attitude that people screw themselves and the system is good.The system is broken. Those who are blind and stupid don't get it.I am an employed Maintenance Technician, making about the same since the mid 80's (was good in the '80s) and now pay so much in taxation that I have serious doubts about being able to retire. This is not because I did not save or over financed my life style. It is because Harper and his cronies are screwing the citizens of this country to give corporations a break. Forbes rated Canada as the #1 place to do business and Harper still gives them more under the guise that this will trickle down.I would of course make more as a brain surgeon or corporate lawyer but that is not the issue. A decent job deserves decent pay.
If you believe this government is doing it's best for the average guy you are an idiot!
Posted by: True | Nov 1, 2021 3:20:02 PM
YES! REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH!! CANADA IS VERY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES ALL HUGE MINERS ARE IN THE COUNTRY. LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA, KWAIT, THEY HAVE NATURAL RESOURCES TOO - OIL. THEY DISTRIBUTE THAT REVENUE TO ITS PEOPLE... THE CITIZENS HAVE LOTS OF BENIFITS... FREE EDUCATION, CHILD CARE ALL KIND OF HELP FROM THE GOV OR THE NEEDIES....
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Nov 1, 2021 4:35:34 PM
@ True
HAHAHAHAHA. Yes, and over there, Islamic law also forbids the banking practice of usury... something which ironically makes Islamic law, and their corporate practices, much more compassionate and humane than our own. It is not surprising that some money actually gets spread around over there for the well-being of their citizens.
But if you think any revenue would be redistributed here, than there is no hope for you. You can't teach an old crook new tricks. It would be like, well, trying to spread democracy in the middle east... it sounds nice, but you are a delusional fool with amnesia, if you believe it.
Posted by: Wow!! | Nov 1, 2021 4:41:18 PM
Clear and Focused... I hope someday the reality of putting food on the table hits you square in the mouth. I would love to see you in a room for ten minutes spewing your intellectual bs at maxtastic!
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Nov 1, 2021 5:07:09 PM
@ Wow!!
First of all - I am self employed. How do you think I put food on the table as it is.
Secondly - If you saw me, I don't think you would want to go even two minutes with me. I would guess that my arms are the size of your legs, and I have stamina. I would also guess that by your response, you are either a filthy pig, or a mindless zombie like maxtastic. So, if you were man enough to leave your weapon outside the ring, I would love to see you there for a few minutes as well. But you are not man enough, and that is why you signed up for that job.
You can't be an individual, so you join a gang.
Coward.
Posted by: Larry | Nov 1, 2021 5:59:32 PM
The secret fear of some of the Occupy protesters may well be what they say. But the actual fear of most (and not just the Occupy group) is that this ruinous path we are on will continue to be followed, to the detriment of all. Many in government celebrated the collapse of the USSR but the cancer that killed it, is endemic in our "Representative" democracies. We have computer systems that can easily handle the load so why don't we all have a vote on every government decision that may affect us???
Posted by: Sandi | Nov 1, 2021 6:56:37 PM
How many of these protesters have or do the following:
Smoke
Drink alcohol
Gamble
Have a cell phone
Subscribe to cable or satellite
Drive a late model car
Live in a house they can't afford
Are in the age bracket they haven't put in their time to earn a decent wage to afford the above?
Posted by: Tristan | Nov 1, 2021 8:05:52 PM
You know, the whole democratic system is rigged, we allegedly vote someone into power and never get another say, it's almost an Oligarchy here in Canada, and in the States it's been proven that a small group of people choose the president, regardless of who the people vote for, so it is. I've all but given up on the main stream partys, and support the Canadian action party, at least they have ideals. Truthfully, after the last elections I figured we would be Americans by the end of Harper's term. As for the protestors, I don't think they can do much to change the system, short of a full scale rebellion. Not to mention every time something like that happens, the old ways come back, the old system, and as famously quoted, "let them eat cake", ended with rolling heads, and anarchy. I'm all for changeing the system, less income desparity, better quality of life, but before you change things, you need a better system to take the place of the old one, and to date, their all flawed.
Posted by: Jess4Lukin | Nov 1, 2021 10:11:52 PM
@Larry and Tristan, you're quite right. It's time we use the technology we have now for more direct participation in government decision maling.
Posted by: Jess4Lukin | Nov 1, 2021 10:16:05 PM
Oooops..."government decision making"
Posted by: Jess4Lukin | Nov 1, 2021 10:23:30 PM
Interestingly, Elections Canada, in its report to parliament on the last election, recommended allowing voting by electronic means. Most Canadians, even the indigent, have access to a phone or a computer. We all have Social Insurance Numbers. All we need is a password.
It's not an unimagineable step from there to actually voting on major government activities. Then, what would we need politicians for. Or parties either?