The secret fear of some 'Occupy' protestors
Remarkably, the world’s “Occupy” protests haven’t lost steam – look, “Occupy Wall Street” might even be its own trademark soon – but what, really, is the uprising about?
As pissed-off consumers continue their marches in Montreal and otherwise, it appears, at least, that the revolt is aimed at a simple redistribution of wealth. The rich make too much, the poor make too little – let’s spread things around a bit.
But according to two Ivy League professors, there is a surprising psychological element lying deep within the minds of some protesters.
Namely, that many lower-income earners actually oppose income redistribution for fear of making the least money among their peers.
We’ll explain.
*Bing: How many people have turned out to the ‘Occupy’ protests?
So, if we understand that income redistribution would be the inexact process of raising what the lowest-paid worker earns and diminishing what the highest-paid worker earns (in the popular lexicon du jour, “the one per cent”), some are suggesting there is worry among certain salary groups about increasing the pay of the poorest.
According to the research of Ilyana Kuziemko and Michael I. Norton, professors at Princeton and Harvard, respectively, those earning just above what the lowest-income groups make might secretly oppose padding the salaries of those falling below them on the wealth chart.
The two economists call it “last-place aversion.” In their words:
“How does last-place aversion play out with regard to redistribution? In our surveys, we asked Americans whether they supported an increase to the minimum wage, currently $7.25 an hour. Those making $7.25 or below were very likely to support the increase – after all, they would be immediate beneficiaries.
“In addition, people making substantially more than $7.25 were also fairly positive towards the increase. Which group was the most opposed? Those making just above the minimum wage, between $7.26 and $8.25. We might expect people who make just below and just above $7.25 to have similar lifestyles and policy attitudes – but in this case, while those making below $7.25 would benefit if the minimum wage were raised to, say, $8.25, those making just above $7.25 would run the risk of falling into a tie for last place.”
Would you be worried about being leapfrogged, perhaps, by Canadians earning just below you on the wage scale? Courtesy colleague Gordon Powers, plug in your income on this Maclean’s calculator and see where your salary ranks compared to the rest of the country.
By Jason Buckland, MSN Money
Posted by: Amazed | Nov 2, 2021 6:47:24 AM
As I work my ass away in Saudi Arabia to support my family so that they can have the things I didn't have...I wonder how and why all these "Occupy" protesters get the time off work to have a campout in all these various cities. I also wonder if my employer is as giving as their's??? Hmmm.... I am guessing not!!! So it seems to me that these protestors have either got a pretty good job / boss or they do not work at all....as I have never had a job where my employer was willing for me to take time off for an "Occupy Protest" I wam going to guess that most are jobless. While camping I wonder if they are killing the day looking at classifieds looking for work??? Perhaps they are reading books to better educate themselves so that they can get a job.... couldn't honestly say. Well if anyone out there is looking for work then there is a plethora of jobs west of Ontario. I certainly wish that I could stay close to home and make good money and have nice things but unfortunately as I am a University drop out my choices are to have an easy job and make little money or a difficult one and make above average money...these options are plentiful if you are willing to make a change in your life and move "West Young Man"!!!! To each their own but am baffled and amazed by people having all this free time to go camping!!!! I only wish I could join in, but unfortunately someone has to work!!!
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Nov 2, 2021 7:39:09 AM
@ Jess4Lukin
Yes, sure. Electronic voting, eh? That won't turn into a fraud-fest or anything. No, no. Our politicians are trustworthy as it is. And the people trusted to come up with the source-code for such machines... they would be completely separate from the government too, right? Hahaha. We might as well start exclusively voting electronically so that our elections can be even more fraudulent, just like the USA! LOL
Long live democracy! hahaha what a joke!
Posted by: To Abused Taxpayer | Nov 2, 2021 9:04:10 AM
NO, the system is NOT doing it's best for the average taxpayer! The system is just that though, a SYSTEM! It is YOUR choice to find a job/career that makes good money! THAT is what CHOICE is all about in a democracy! BTW DON'T blame Mr. Harper for this!! He HAS brought our 15% tax down to 13%. It isn't alot but it's more than I can say for Mr. McGuinty who just keeps throwing hidden taxes at us.
People like you burn me!!
Posted by: humanone2 | Nov 2, 2021 9:11:34 AM
i would like to know where all the religious leaders are? Why are they not speaking out against this abuse of power against their members? There silence is deafening!
Posted by: Elmo | Nov 2, 2021 10:23:14 AM
Great to see that "Clear & Focused" has finally flipped his lid and is reverting to insults and disparaging remarks about Canadian Military personnel (maxtastic) and well as waving his cyber-bully cape and inviting bloggers (Wow!!) to meet him in a ring. Time to take out the cattleprods and tasers and zap this moron into the middle-east. Don't know what his self employed business is but since he spends most of his "stamina" and time ranting on the internet, he'll probably declare bankrupcy soon and seek support from the same government and financial institutions he so easily puts the boots to. Hey numbnuts... nobody is forcing you to stay in this country !! You're free to leave whenever you want !! Go find a small mud hut or tent close to your Islamic brothers and see how long you last begging for their compassion and humanity; I'm sure they're waiting to hear from you.
Posted by: crippled | Nov 2, 2021 11:42:26 AM
I support those who have occupied anywhere in the country. I see a lot of people trashing others who work for a living just like them. The ones that this action is about are being ignored that is political puppets and the Certifiably Insane Banking Criminals who are stealing our childrens future. It is the sociopaths that are teaghing econimics at all the Major colleges around the world. It is the money and power addicted swine that root in the filth we call capitalism. morels and ethics in businuess dealings combined with transparentcy and proper terms in real prisons in the general population for white coller criminals.
Posted by: crippled | Nov 2, 2021 12:01:32 PM
Anyone who thinks things are more evenly distributed by isslamics in the middle east is on some cheap dope juiced with acid and loco weed or is just plain mentally challenged or does not own a tv or is not able to read.We need a political party that will come out with laws to incarcerate bankers lawyers and lobbiests who disregard laws and the good of the people. It will never change until criminals like B Mulrony and others are made to pay for thier lies and thievery instead of being allowed to right books etc did we ever get our six million dollars back when he admitted he lied.
Posted by: blefty | Nov 2, 2021 12:05:03 PM
Redistrubute wealth, OK, that includes first nation people living on reserves with no running water, no employment, no services, no roads, no hospitals...I am fine with that, in fact its only fair, but when we talk about redistibution of wealth I want to include all my fellow man, those in India, Africa and South America, and create a base level where everyone has fresh water, access to health care and education, after all it is not fundamentally fair for some to have more than others. How can we let others die while we enjoy a lifestyle of lavishness. Its not fair. Imagine if every child in Africa had the same lifestyle as we enjoy in Canada...what a great world it would be, every
African child would have a cell phone, a lap top...could face book, watch reality TV and eat fast food and get fat...for once. Or maybe that kind of lifestyle would not be the base level, maybe the base level in reality is we get enough food, drinking water, housing and health care to go around to everyone in the world...nothing more. Its fair..., but maybe we are not interested in "fair" as a global concept, but what we think of as "fair" in our Canadian landscape. We see others with so much and others with so little. i wonder what a child in Africa thinks when they see our Canadian lifestyle...I bet its...kill the whiteman.
Posted by: blefty | Nov 2, 2021 12:12:09 PM
When 40% of eligible people do not vote......then....well...you have made a choice to not make a difference. You could elect a (more) fascist government, a socilaist government...the green party. But you can't if you don't vote....you can only occupy or complain if you don't voite.
Posted by: Clear & Focused | Nov 2, 2021 1:51:31 PM
@ blefty
Hahaha
Summary: Why don't you want to vote? You get Fascism or Socialism - take your pick. And you better fuckin' like it too, or else.
Posted by: SP | Nov 2, 2021 2:45:29 PM
@humanone2
The British news was showing where the worlds religious leaders heads are. Apparently the last week the leaders of St.Pauls Cathedral were talking to lawyers and city leaders trying to figure out how to get the 'Occupy' group shoved off.
These and other short sighted people of this world don't seem to understand that a) this is a generational conflict, b)The occupy groups are peaceful and are deluded into thinking peaceful protest will result in any change, c) it takes less than 3% of the population to start a revolution that will result in real change, d) Change is inevitable.
Posted by: Anne | Nov 2, 2021 6:48:40 PM
Who are we trying to kid.I'm sure if you ask the poor people that are living on less than $10,000.00 a year. If they are worried about the rich making less and the poor making more.The answer would be. Please just give me $10.00 or $20.00 dollars more an hour so that i don't have to go to the food bank to feed my family.Its about time we the working poor are standing up to the greed of the rich.Tell me, do the banks need earnings to be in the billions every quarter? Do Oil Companies also need Billions every quarter? Our society is so money hungry,its absolutely sickening.
Posted by: Poorbutdandy | Nov 2, 2021 8:51:07 PM
I've talked to one of the protesters at "Occupy Regina", he instisted that he has a decent paying job. All of the protesters have different views of why they are there. If you ever watched Zeigiest or Loose Change, some of you might understand why they're protesting. True, the fat cats or high mucka mucks, indeed, make more money and they do pay taxes. The thing is that they are not making it easier for the less fortunate. They complain that they're tax dollars are paying for welfare or social assistance, that may be. But the poor also pay taxes, in the income and the general goods they buy. So a "well off" person or family can't really say that, because the poor people pay taxes also. They just don't make as much as them. The middle-class has been destroyed, that was the plan since the 60's. There is protesting and rioting in all countries around the world because of this, this is what the governments want. Cause the people to revolt and then they can make they're plans come to light and instate a bill or law to satisfy the masses. Just saying.
Posted by: earnest | Nov 2, 2021 9:04:39 PM
you should all read or reread JACK LONDON'S iron heel written in the early 1900's he predicted then what is happening now to our society, and why.
Posted by: Ducks | Nov 3, 2021 12:21:04 AM
So easy to take our current fiscal crisis and look around trying to point fingers at people and place blame. Some say that Occupy protesters probably don't work, or are too lazy to train for a better job. That may be true of the select few, but with many businesses suffering and needing to have mass-layoffs just to stay afloat... or people losing their jobs because their employer couldn't stay afloat, the sad truth is that there are probably quite a few intelligent, hard-working people out there who are a victim of the times and who would give ANYTHING to be able to have a job again. Others blame the banks or the investors for making the market sink. Banks were not the only institutions asking for handouts, and while many did engage in very irresponsible business practices (don't get me started on how angry the massive bailouts make me... people have to bail out BANKS who can't manage money responsibly?!?!), people need to take a GOOD look at WHY so many financial institutions were allowed to operate in such a fiscally reckless manner. And, of course, people point fingers at the government, and I am not going to downplay their role in all of this, but I am not going to paint them as being evil like some do. Irresponsible, yes, corrupt, probably at some level, and some world governments have shown very poor responses to this entire crisis.
But at the core, a huge contributing factor to this global economic crisis is GREED. Governments, businesses and, yes, even individuals constantly crying for more, more, MORE. Individuals who want bigger houses, more possessions than what their income can allow, and so they slowly allow themselves to drown in debt. (Note: I recognise that my prior statement probably does not apply to a great number of the individuals affected by recession, that there are many people who tried their best to be fiscally responsible but still find themselves in hard times.) Banks who want more customers (because, hey, that equals more POTENTIAL interest income and so better quarters and higher stock prices), so they irresponsibly loaned money to people already weighed down by debt. A loan is only profitable IF the borrower can eventually pay it back with interest. If not, then it because a liability, a write-off, a bad business decision. Governments want people to stop complaining (well, let's be realistic, complain less), to pay their taxes, to win votes for the next election and to gain corporate financial support for their next election. So instead of doing what is right, they are constantly doing what is popular, to the detriment of many. Everyone wants lower taxes but impeccible services and infrastructure? Let's borrow money, and tax breaks for all!
The accountibility lies in many places, and instead of accepting responsibility and learning from mistakes, everyone is pointing fingers and still trying to stroll carelessly down the ruinous path of greed and entitlement that lead us here in the first place.
Posted by: Dana | Nov 3, 2021 1:45:34 PM
To poorbutdandy: I appreciate how you have actually spoken with a protestor to know "who" these protestors really are.
To many others on the thread:
Everyone talks about these people like they know their character, they know how much money they make, and they know their financial situation. No one knows anything about these people so don't make arguments based on your assumptions about them.
I am so tired of hearing about how "if you want to make more than minimum wage you should get off your lazy butts and get an education that can get a real paying job." How can you afford an education if you make minimum wage?
Someone said earlier in the thread saying "I don't care if you mop floors 40 hours a week. You should be able to afford a home, food, and children." I completely agree. Someone in this world needs to mop the floors, someone needs to pick up the trash, SOMEONE has to do all of these jobs. Are we as society saying that these people don't deserve to have their needs met? Are we saying they don't deserve food or a home?
Unless you have been a member of the poor class you have little idea of how difficult it is to escape that class. It's also important to decipher what "poor" really is. Growing up with a single mom and not getting brand name clothes isn't poor.
Posted by: Randy Kubbernus | Nov 5, 2021 1:14:10 AM
captialism does not work !And we surely can not rule by referendum,there is nothing as stupid as the masses.we need to come up with something for a more even distribution of wealth.
Posted by: phil | Nov 8, 2021 10:52:24 AM
@Larry
The origin of democracy is that it started out as a decisions for small communities made by a small group of learned men.
Greece was never a democracy, Athens was.
Now democracy has devolved into uneducated masses picking whom they like the most, to make decisions on issues that the populace of which are completely unaware much less informed.
The outcome of letting everyone decide upon every decision are the riots in Greece. They are protesting to perserve the privileges that were paid for by borrowing from the rest of Europe and the world. Their government is now trying to curb these privileges but the populace would obviously vote against it. If the populace were to succeed in their wishes, the lenders would just cease to lend, thereby accelerating Greece 's collapse. Until the individuals take the responsibility to educate themselves, democracy will not be the solution. Just because over a small period of human history, a few "democractic" countries brought about the rapid advancement of humanity, it does not mean applying democracy to every problem is the correct solution.
If you wish to observe how unskilled the populace is to make these decisions, just look at the viewership of the numerous TV networks, youTube, etc. If people are spending that much time in mindless entertainment, when do they get educated about medicine, economics, environment, and human rights? Do you really want those people making those decisions?