Are red light cameras simply a hidden tax?

I've gotten one of these fines last year and I find its a total cash grab. I certainly don't want my tax dollars to pay to double the amount of red light cameras in the city...I don't think it will really improve anything for drivers. The fine is addressed to the registered owner of the vehicle, my ex girlfriend was driving when she ran the red light on baseline and merivale rd. and I'm the one who got the fine in the mail 4 weeks later. How's that fair, having to pay for an ex partner's mistake? They should nab the driver, not the owner. Thats my number one complaint with any red light or speed camera system (watch out for those in montreal), its always the owner that gets the fine regardless of who's driven.

Its easy,..if you dont want to pay the "tax" DONT run red lights...Its simple and easy.

Mike you were hit because you ARE the owner. Unless we have a police officer manning every intersection, the owner is listed, so you get hit...its unfair..BUT a camera is ALOT more cheaper than the option of a police officer on every corner.

This is a mind blowing article that Are red light cameras simply a hidden tax.there are safety problems that cameras can plausibly solve, and remove them where they don’t.

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Jonshan

Best Savings Bonds

Is there any doubt ?? It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the greasy pigs augmenting their revenue intake f ing swine.

Hey Fooz,
At $325 a pop it is very cost effective to have a cop at every corner. It would pay for the officers wages and benefits and the neccessary equipment. And all that they would have to do is catch one per shift to justify the cost.
Then it would not seem like a such a cash grab at that amount.
Another benefit is it would create employment.
Red light cameras are nothing but a cash grab, but put a cop on every corner... what a fantastic idea !

If they would synchronize the lights on the main through ways accross town there would be less racing to get through them. We have a 3 minute idling bylaw but many minutes of idling are happening at the lights.
The bigger problem is tailgating & people zipping in & out of traffic to get to the red light before you do.
The cameras may work in your favour in an accident where both parties say they had a green light.
I still am not in favour of these anyway.

Red light and speed cameras are nothing but cash grabs plain and simple. There is NO safety benefit. My B-I-L in the RCMP tried to justify them by saying they allow police departments to hire more police officers. For what? I asked? Show me the statistics where they solved one more assault case, one more robbery, one more break and enter, because they weren't involved collecting revenue for their jurisdiction. Of course he couldn't. I've had a speed camera ticket in Calgary. Eight weeks after the incident; yes eight, since I live out of province, I get a ticket in the mail. I called ICBC and BC RCMP. You know what? They don't care. The cameras are only enforceable in if an out of province driver voluntarily pays the fine. If they don't, there are no repercussions since the driver is not registering a vehicle or getting a driver's license in Calgary. I also received a red light ticket. I was traveling at a speed of 45 kms an hour, according to the camera. The intersection of a 4 lane road was empty of all traffic except for a pickup turning on the furthest lane away from me. There were 2 photos. One where I was crossing the stop line, the next halfway through the empty intersection. The only way I would have crossed the intersection without triggering the camera is if I was speeding. Since I wasn't, the synchronization of the light discourages driving less than the speed limit. So where's the safety? If there was a cop on the corner, in my experience, he'd be highly unlikely to ticket me since I was not driving recklessly, and the intersection was empty of all traffic, including cross traffic. Cameras don't use discretion. They are only money grabbing machines. Fining the owner of the vehicle brings up a question of responsibility. My friend had his car stolen in Calgary. To add insult to injury, he got 4 speed camera tickets. All while the thief was driving the car. He took it to court, the ruling was he had to pay the ticket anyway. He took it to a ticket agency, they fought the tickets, charging him the grand sum of $10 for each ticket. The penalties for all the tickets were cut in half. So if safety is such an important thing, the only reason they cut the penalty is they figure getting $150 a ticket is better then nothing. Which is what the City of Calgary will be receiving from me. Nothing.

If we were a philosophical matue society, we wouldn't need any laws to govern our actions, as we would only do what is ethical. Reality is different. When was the last time you saw someone come to a full stop at a STOP sign? When was the last time you respected a speed limit? We are told not to drink and drive and every year how many die hit by cars driven by drunks? We try to get away with everything we can. A cash grab is when the City imposes a fine for something you didn't do or charges you exgerated fines for small infractions. Traffic infractions are not small. You are driving a two ton projectile. If you went through a red light, or committed any infraction, you deserve the fine, by camera or by any other means. Don't want to get tickets? Obey the rules. When you grow up and obey the rules you will no longer get tickets. DO like I did. Park at a convenience store tha is located at a corner with a STOP sign and count 50 cars. None of them came to a full stop. Stop whinning and bragging about your triumph in municipal court and start acting like a mature person. You can grow up, without growing old.

I am assuming that our city is not an isolated case - our council recently voted in favour of red light cameras as a way of generating additional income during the present economy.

I think that pretty much nails it, don't you think?

They become cash-grab machines when they're calibrated to start taking pictures on the 'loose' side of enforcement. This probably happens, and governments get addicted to the increased revenues. Conversely, from watching drivers every day as a whole (and I live in a 'relaxed' area), they're getting WORSE. Studenburg complains that his running the red light was 'Ok' because it was 'safe'. Cutting through arguments to the contrary, because it probably was, what about Person 'X' that watches him do this and decides that he can do it, too? But HE does it while there's a left-turning car stuck in the intersection... HE doesn't know the difference because he doesn't have the judgement. And it's also not beyond someone like Studenburg (or myself) to make a mistake from time to time.

The base problem is that all drivers are NOT created equal, but the law and society try (and plausibly NEED) to treat them as such. I can talk on a cell phone, have a few drinks and run red lights all day at high speeds and be 'safe'. But the majority of folks can't. It's up to ME to abide by those laws to set an example for others. And we're fortunate here in Canada where the majority of cops are still way more lenient and forgiving than their counterparts in the US...

They should drop the guise of doing this in the name of safety and just come out and SAY it's a financial penalty. If they were really interested in safety, we'd tighten up our license requirements like they do in Europe. Have tiered licenses for abilities and areas depending on training and ability. And IMPROVE DRIVER TRAINING. And repeat it EVERY TIME THE LICENSE IS RENEWED. I'd be willing to pay more for my license for that. Right now, tons of drivers are taught by, or follow the example of, people that couldn't drive very well in the first place. And our system encourages the 'get your license just because you turned legal age. It's a RIGHT.' mentality. Irresponsible drivers and accidents? Insurance will take care of that...

I can't believe they have such strict requirements on pilots, yet will let almost ANYONE operate a 3-ton piece of steel at high speeds less than 10' away from others...

Speeding cams could potentially be calibrated incorrectly and give fasle readings (this is possible even inhandheld devices, although you'll never get anyone to admit it)

Red light cams take a picture of the car AND the light - if the cam takes a bad pic, then you can actually TELL the colour of the light (by position at least - for B&W cams)

So... If you run a red light, you get a ticket - GOOD !!! - And you pay money - WOW!! - Cash grab - WHO CARES!! - It is 100% voluntary - run a red and pay - don't run and don' pay

How can any reasonable person argue that failing to obey such a SIMPLE and OBVIOUS safety rule should be allowed?? - There are plenty of silly laws and plenty of tax grabs that one could raise a rational argument against...

This is definately not one... Seein the roads today... I think more people shouldhave thier licenses removed totally - this would solve... carbon emmisions, fuel consumption, congestion, road wear, costs of scale with public transit - etc.
If you run red lights (perhaps one mistake every couple of years of more is understandable), then you are a BAD driver - If you are the 5th car back trying to cut in a left turn and run a red.... you ARE a bad driver (and you slow ALL directions down) - If you beleive that getting a ticket that shows without question that you ran a red is somehow evil.... Then you ARE a bad driver... Please hand in your license and take a bus - NOW

Oh - I forgot - if you lend your girlfriend the car and she gets the ticket - give it to her.... cam tickets don't give out demerits

If your girlfriend gets another - buy her a bus token - send her back to the paddock - she is either a bad driver or an idiot - as are you for letting ANYONE drive your car who IS a bad driver...

Fewer bad drivers - and mandatory DRIVING tests (actual tests on the road) for those over 60 (yes, over 60 - every year - paid by same) - will make our roads safer...

I trust someone will take my license someday....

Red lights are definitely cash machine and they were not installed for drivers and especially not for pedestrians safety. there is so many stop lights, stops on almost every corner, speed restrictions, school signes, children crossing, school corridors etc. etc. real sign polution and if you have to looked at these and read them how you can make sure that you do exactly what's required.

The cameras and the fines are there to deter those who feel they can stretch the boundaries of the law. I lived in many areas of Ontario. By far, the drivers in Toronto are very aggressive. My job of being in Sales made me navigate the streets of downtown Toronto every day. The issue is that cars run through the intersection on a late yellow. The 1st car turning left is delayed all the time thus making the 2nd car already in the intersection turning left on a red. I was told that the norm is for 3 cars turning left on yellow. I am not exaggerating if I told you that in 7 years in Toronto, more than 500 times have I been given the "loud horn" treatment for not turning left on yellow as the 2nd car. I obey the law. The 1st car is in the intersection and I wait behind at the "Stop Line" according to the law. If I tailgated the 1st car like most do, I would being going through a red light most of the time. When I have done so, almost 100% of the time, there is a 3rd car rushing behind me thus obviously going through a red light and delaying the flow of the traffic the other way. This Camera idea will deter such bad behaviour in Toronto. Safety is really secondary even if the "said purpose" is such.
I am now waiting for lame rebuttals from blogs.

On a side note, do you remember the cameras we had on Ontario Highways. It was done for our own safety to slow down. The speed limit was 100 but the cameras were set-up to catch speeders going at least 118 km because you didn't lose any demerit points if you went 114 and the court system had to allow a buffer of 3 KM or so in case drivers challenged the Speed Sensor and Cameras.
Well, there was such a backlash from the people that an election issue was based on scrapping it. People still raced on the highways until they were coming to an overpass where the cameras/sensors were located. Once passing this bridge, they sped up again. Were they breaking the law by speeding? Yes, of course. So why was there such gripe over this law to slow down traffic and to save lives. I heard people with their lame excuse that lives were not saved by these cameras. Crock of SH!!. Let's face it, we want laws that don't affect us and if they do, we complain. That's who we are.

You're not going to get any rebuttal from me Rules, I'm the guy on the other side of the intersection getting the horn honked at him.

If you run red lights, then you deserve the fines. Period! The only people that complain are those that have been violating traffic laws. So shut the F**k up!