Is a university education really worth all that money?

The present system has been set up to fuel the academic factories. Everyone should have post secondary school training, without doubt, but not everyone is suited for university. Our community college was well suited to provide marketable skills that had been set up by industry to prepare people for excellent careers. Many of the programs were shutdown for lack of interest. 30 years ago an aspiration to be a tradesman was considered a second rate accomplishment. Today they earn $150K per year. Universities selectively produce and control access to many professions while professional associations restrict access to work in many fields that do not require the skill sets that are needed for the jobs at hand. This is done to guarantee new grads employment. Little effort is made to coordinate aptitude, training and employment. Bring back government sponsored apprentice programs, restrict access to universities based on achievement and restrict the wholesale importation of short term contract skilled labor.

In short, use our post secondary institutions to prepare the country for a future of self sufficiency.

Let's see. 4 years for my undergrad, 2 years for my Masters, Endless ongoing unpaid courses and yet still earning proportionately much less income than my Father or Grandfather who managed very nicely with their Undergrads & Masters. Oh, and they covered their total education costs by working on their summer holiday's.
So, just using basic ROI calculations there is little chance that my university will ever provide anywhere near the results that University cheerleaders hint at. Only if I am very very lucky and have a much longer working career than my father/grandfather (so far 55 years for both father & grandfather) will my education even begin to provide an adequate return IMHO.
Put it this way. Take a 16 year old out of school, buy a Tim Hortons/McDonalds franchise for them and then compare net worth at 50 years of age with a typical economics/philosophy/music/finance grad net worth at 50. The results might make you sick.

In my opinion school was put into place to keep the unemployment rate down. If people don't go to school, there will be a lot of people without jobs. However, our schooling system got greedy and decided to put its students into massive debt and promised them a big payout when they graduated. This is not true. The payout goes to the banks who are in bed with the schools. "richer than you think" not if your in debt! Don't get me wrong, school is a good thing, and knowledge is power, just don't listen to everyone who promises a great return on education. I still maintain that not everyone can make the big bucks, only the 1 percent, and the few lucky ones who make it through the cracks............

I'ts very close to the point that a 3 year college course or 4 year university degree is about equal to what a grade 12 High school diploma was 50 years ago. That's not including the cost of attaining the education.

Mr. Negative: There are many ways of getting rich. But 99% of them require a person that has no conscience the other 1% are either just lucky or are lucky enough to have the right idea at the right time and the right place.

Everyone needs to stop comparing the past to the present.

Go to school and pay 15-30K for 3-5 years for an undergrad and you will likely be rewarded with a lower middle-class salary a few years after you graduate. Work medium-hard and you can climb your way up to middle-class. You'll finish paying off your student loan in your early to mid 30s, save for a few more years and then buy a house. Want to earn more, spend an additional 10-20K and 1-3 years more to get a Master's. You'll start with a middle-class salary in a year or two after graduating, and can look forward to working very hard to climb to upper-middle class by mid- to late-40s.

This is the new normal.

Or don't go to school. You'll likely end up at a call center, kitchen, or warehouse, and be among the working poor your whole life.

School is not the place for riches, it is the place for middle class.

Want to be rich? School or not, work back-breakingly hard at your own company and hope to be lucky, or work back-breakingly hard as a manager and hope that your effort will be rewarded with riches and even more work, or work back-breakingly hard at med-school and have a 70 hour work week + working on call for your entire career. Or be born into the right family, d'uh!

This is the old and new normal.

Everyone's choices are clear. Stop comparing now to our parents and grandparents time. They had it lucky; they were only competing with 10% of humanity. We are competing with 50% of humanity and ever smarter machines. Of course our lives will be more -economically- difficult.

Though we do have more stuff, for what it's worth.

Education today is about giving yourself choices in life. The better your education the better your choices will be. Since when did an education ever mean you would be guarranteed monatary wealth? Education is only a key that unlocks doors. You haven't learned much if you think your sheep skin is a winning lottery ticket. I work with Professional Engineers with skill sets that don't match what they are doing but their employers simply want individuals with a proven level of accomplishment willing to learn and accept responsibility. Education is used to separate the sheep from the goats. End of story!!!

I am a visible minority woman. I obtain a 4 year bachelor of Arts degree in my chosen field at the age of 40-something and was a single parent raising an infant son. I obtained my degree, got into debt by the tune of $45k+ and now work in the steno pool. Go figure. It was not for lack of trying, but sometimes a degree doesn't always open the doors to opportunity. My advise is finish high school, work hard, be respectful, follow your dreams. Do not get into debt going to university, it is not worth it.

Any college, trade school or university training is better than having none. An Associate Degree will get you at least in the door and noticed and probably $10,000. more than a competitor that is there by experience alone. Why? Usually the person with the degree is more team oriented and willing to listen and do as the company tells them and knows to use the heirarchy of the company to get answers if they need to accomplish something that requires more than what they have to work with. The person with a Associates is less inhibited socially and more open with the company and the other employees. The more socially you are means the more adapted to structure and the more willing you'll be to getting the job done according to protocol. Employees have been shown statistically to be more approachable in the grand scheme of things and are socially more adapted. The stronger the degree means the more your reliability and the stronger the degree in area will of course assure you have proven information that most others don't have to give for the well being of the company.

Although I agree that having a degree makes you more commercially worth something -- the truth is that the Ph.D that taught you is actually worth less than what you have paid them to be. The Ph.D's of today have created a degree system that moans of bloated intel that is actually false and not applicable to the working world...except maybe if you are going to acting school. Usually in today's school systems the students are taught so much useless information that they are overwhelmed with decisions that cannot be answered with logical answers except to just keep trudging ahead looking for the answers. If you don't mind going to Schools of Imagination which 90 percent of the schools are, then you are on the right path. If you want to learn real physical skills - those are left for the student to find because the schools with all their Ph.D's aren't going to teach you these. The Ph.D system requires a certain ammount of magic to be created in the system so that the really smart people will be the only ones that figure it out. The average dummy will stay the course of 9 years and pay the price that only the wizards of commerce figured out and left university and became the billionaires of the world. From then on it's a downhill race to the dummy at the very lowest warehouse level of intel that's retained in the brain. For whatever reason that the user has gone out of their way to retain so much unused and unusable intel stored....who will ever know.

I'm telling you right now, a university or college degree/diploma is not worth it. The amount of debt you will have coming out school will leave you unable to start your future. You will put off buying a home, buying a car, buying things you need, just to keep afloat of the debt.

Its not worth it. Employer arent hiring like they have before, corporations have started hiring cheaper foreign labour, or outsourcing anything to save a dollar. Do yourself a favour ... save your cash .... and teach yourself what you want to learn.

Far too many "Bird Courses" and useless degrees being produced. Marketable skill sets are the only thing worth pursuing. If you can afford to play around in university and come out with a Mickey Mouse degree that's fine but don't complain about being in debt. A recognized engineering degree, MD or law degree is not the same as arts, sociology or psychology. Might be good for conversation but lets get real half of the students in these institutions shouldn't even be there.

Let's see, I paid my own way through university. I had no debt when I graduated with a Ph.D. in Chem. Engineering. I sought out a private company that funded my research and paid for my education, from which they benefited and developed and patented a technology now worth $500+ million per year. I am now independently wealthy and continue to enjoy working in my field. I work where I want and when I want.

Oh, so let me answer the question directly: Is a university education really worth all that money?
YES!

University isn't just about the money that you have to fork out in order for you to get a job, it's also about the experiences you have during those vital years. Things that have no real monetary value; real life skills and knowledge that you will carry with you throughout your entire life. For some people, they have already learned these skills, so therefore University isn't necessarily going to be worth their time as much as the next person. Everyone one is different. For myself, university is vital to my understanding of society and provides a fascinating and intellectual veiw point on the subjects required for the career path I've chosen. There's more people on this earth today than there was 50 years ago and people are more cut-throat to receive decent paying jobs that alot don't even like, but still pays very well. Money runs this society and everyone's life, but how much is one's life worth moneywise? What about their knowledge and experience? People can put a price on someone's time, but not what they know.

So to answer your question in a quick summed up answer:
Yes, University education is worth every penny for me... but I'm not everybody, now am I?

I remember about 20 years ago there were few universities in British Columbia. Everyone got a job right out of highschool or went to college for a year or two. Very few people chose to go to university. Well, I chose college for a two year program. While I was in college, many of my friends were buying a house very cheap. By the time I got out of college and got a job, the housing market rose quickly and I paid a much higher price for my house. My kids are thinking of university now. I don't want them to go because the tuition is ridiculous and now there are so many universities in British Columbia that I feel they are now pumping too many people into degrees with too much competition for the few jobs available. I feel that universities must be able to adjust the degrees and programs to the employment situation so that we don't have to bring in foreigners for the fields requiring expertise.

It is wonderful to see that "Dr" J. Lindon got such a great imaginary return on his univeristy education.
In fact it is such a great imaginary return that he is able to focus every post of his on how awesome and financially rich he is. Sadly with no university records showing such a person and no Google results outside of MSN one cannot be, but sceptical.
That said, I do know chem eng university grads (sad individuals) and for most of them their work/life balance is a work/work balance (100+ hour work weeks anyone?) with a paycheque surprisingly small compared to the effort expended.
The problem isn't the university is offering a small return. The problem is that industry and the owners of industry have been allowed to duck their financial responsibilties and it will only get better when the present system goes pop. Think of it this way. Productivity has increased in "the west" every year, no? In the 1950's a man could support a wife, 3 children and still have a car less than 5 years old, a detatched house and a yearly vacation. Now, most wives are working, families are smaller and the only people who have benefitted from the explosion in produtivity sure as heck aren't working or relying upon a university education for their income.
The question shouldn't be is university worth all that money. The question should be why isn't it free? And why in an oil producing - food exporting - hydroelectric saturated nation with almost limitless resources are our standards of living so pitifully low??

university education worth it..canada

what is the value of learning to think? it is sad to see so few are interested only in the commercialism of knowledge. you are more than a mere commercial entity. think about it....

Self educate yourself by reading, you will be surprised!!!!!

Is a university degree worth it? Yes and no. If you're looking for the experiences, to learn new and exciting (albeit not always entirely accurate) things, this is the place for you. Is everyone who graduates guaranteed a good return on their investment? No. Not at all. In fact, in my experience, you have to be lucky. Would I have paid again despite being a single parent struggling to complete my Masters degree with few job prospects in a highly competitive market? Yes, it was worth it to me. And that means sacrifices - my children will grow up in an apartment, not a house. So what? I have a budget that I have to follow every month... shouldn't everyone? I can't afford a vacation every year, but maybe I could if I didn't have children and cable. You also have to prioritize your life. I went to University so that I could grow as a person, not make a million dollars every year. If that's not your reason, don't go.

Oh, and please don't tell me that university teaches you how to think for yourself... the people who get the best marks in undergrad are the ones who simply regurgitate what they're told. At least that's the case in my field. Graduate school is where the real education happens... where you start to take charge of your own education instead of sitting in class and being lectured at. Everything I learned that was useful, I learned in grad school.

Just my two cents.

My tuition rose from $2400 or so at the start of my degree and when I had completed it, it was at the rate of about $4200 a year in a very expensive city, Vancouver, and that was 13 years ago. Tuition costs have risen since.

Regardless of the path you chose to follow..it's your drive that wil get you where you end up. As a couple of middle aged self employed folks each with 2yr technical school training we are quite satisfied that our post secondary training was a most worthwhile investment .Happily wehave carved out a quite comfortable existence for our family as did our parents, who without formal training were also able to create a good life with food shelter security, travel etc.Times were completely different but the common denominator is that both generations were willing to bust our butts and work for what we got, take risk,stay committed to our goals etc. I think the bigger concern is lowered work ethic and expectations of instant gratification and entitlement that has infected the upcoming generation..Those that succumb to this disease will flounder, those who don't will flourish either way. Also With 2 adult children currently returning to post secondary pursuits after various post high school experiences we are supporting our youngest to work, travel and get some life experiences before committing to a career..18 is too young....When post secondary training is the right thing then the investment is worth it because they are willing and able to make the most of their investment in career training....

Frank is right. Too many bird courses. My brother took 'Kites' in college. The entire semester was based around building and decorating a kite. And they weren't even expected to work 100% like a normal kite. University education is absolutely worth the price if you come out with skills and competencies that are demanded by the workforce. Let's say in Ontario they give out 100,000 Bachelor degrees in 'General Arts' each year. What kind of jobs are these graduates expecting to fall in their laps when? Let's see, there's Teacher...teacher...teacher...and, panhandler. I'd say many of these people would be better off going the college/apprenticeship route and learning a valuable trade, which can be used to get REAL JOBS. The youth of today(myself included) except everything to be handed to them. When I was 17 and first applied for a BBA at WLU(useful program), I fully expected to graduate and become a millionaire in a few years. Surlely I should have been appointed as the CEO of TD Bank when I was 21. In reality, you gotta start at the bottom but guess what? A 50k salary is still a heck of a lot better than $10.25 an hour.

Employers usually do not care what you have studied at university unless it is something more concrete, and not necessarily cement-mixing, although perhaps even that would have been wise, given the sorry condition of a lot of our bridges...

I think it is often a mistake to quote US academics on US statistics on the value of a degree, as in the US, it is often used as a class marker or demarcator, especially the Ivy League schools. People do come through them on scolarships, witness President Obama, or get in more or less because their father went, hello Dubya! (George W. Bush). Also American executives are far more likely to have a university degree than Canadian ones, who are slower to perceive the value of one beyond the demarcator effect, or the forlorn expectation that it ensures a degree of competency or social organisation beyond Facebook activity and frat house or sorority ethics, although some of those can be fun to watch on film!

I totally agree with Colour of Money that we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with our parents and grandparents, but with people of the same age without post-secondary education. There is no question that in general people some kind of post-secondary education, whether it be college or university, earn more than there agemates without. Graduate school gets more questionable. It depends on the field, and how much debt you are going to accumulate to get that graduate degree. Don't just get a graduate degree to avoid a tough job market, or because you have to start paying back your student loans if you are not in school.

As for the person who said you would be better off setting up your 16 year old with a Tim Hortons than giving them a post-secondary education - I know a couple that own and operate a fast food restaurant, that were considering starting a Tim Hortons. They said it would have cost around $600,000 to get in, out of which approximately a third had to be in cash and the rest could be financed. Also Tim Hortons also only takes on franchisees with business experience. So sure, if your children have business experience at 16, you have $200,000 to give each of them, and you have enough credit to guarantee the loan for the other $400,000 for each of them, by all means set them up. For the rest of us, university or college is a more viable option.

As a middle aged couple of entrepreneurs, each with 2 yr technical training, we feel that our post secondary training has been a very worthy investment. we have been able to enjoy a very comfortable middle class life with perks of owning multiple properties,security , travel etc. This is also the environment I which we were raised by parents with no formal post secondary education. the common denominator is both generations were willing to take risk, work hard and see things thru. No one gave us anything, we earned it.. I think that whether a young adult pursues further education or not their success or lack of it will be based on their work ethic. Many of this upcoming generation have lived in a world of instant gratification with little accountability..Those that overcome this expectation of perfection and entitlement will succeed, the Others will succumb, regardless of post secondary pursuits...Also, As parents of 3 grown children, 2 who have recently returned to school after time spent in the "real world", and one about to grauduate high school we are convinced that some life experience is a wonderful skill to take into a post secondary situation, thus are encouraging our youngest to work, travel etc to find out who he is and where he wants to go..18 is too young to know what they want and how to get it...When the time is right and they are truly ready, they will apply themself fully and that makes all the difference..success is not so much which path you take but the drive within you that takes you down your path..

Just a little disappointed in how the system works - I have 9 years post secondary education. My husband has none. He easily makes 3-4 times more than I do. Doesn't really make education seem worthwhile when you consider I also have about 60k in student debt.

I came from a poor family and at the time of the 90's recession lost my job, had two kids, and ended up on welfare. I decided to go to school and better, not just myself, but my chances at success. The government makes you go off welfare and take out a loan for your living costs that you have to pay back at the end. Yet, if I had not chosen higher education, like many people in the system, they would have continued to pay for me. It sickens me that I am paying back for living expenses that the goverment would readily pay for those unwilling to work. They need to restructure the system. Maybe look at creating a program for welfare recipients that they have to pursue education - no grade 12, make them get it in order to receive subsistence; have a grade 12, go to college/university - pay for their living expenses and offer loans for tuition and books; or find apprenticeships for suitable candidates and offset some of the costs for the employer. Make it manditory in order to stay in the system.

I will never regret my choice to go to college or university. And although I am no longer employed in the field I went to college for, the knowledge I gained will stay with me and increase my chances for success. My university education is the same. Although I wasn't satisfied with the career, the cost of my bachelor's degree almost forces me to keep doing a job I don't like. For high school students they should make career development manditory - but, not like the program available at high schools now. They need to delve into the personality of each individual, forecast career paths that may be suitable, narrow it down (say 5), show them the educational requirements, pay expectations, and future employability of each career. Once the student can narrow it down to 1-3 choices have them spend a day with an individual in that career - show them what the job really looks like. It would take a commitment from the education system, government, and employers/employees. But, it may improve the students chances for success and career fulfillment. But......the government would never want that! They like repeat students in the college/university system - more money for them, more money for the banks, more money for the institutions.

The biggest comparison to be made between our fathers/grandfathers is that they would have went to school, got a job, and retired from that profession. Now, we typically switch professions at least three times. With the growing costs of obtaining a diploma/degree/masters/doctorate, the amount we spend on a career keeps increasing. The cost of living, combined with the amount necessary for retirement causes a higher debt-income ratio. We may make more, but will have less money in the end.

Employers force the need for education. Most jobs require high school at a minimum. Many require college / university. And there is an ever growing trend requiring certifications/tickets/etc. We are forced to make money to earn money. Hard work just isn't enough any more. I feel sorry for the individuals who cannot succeed in a classroom because the education system does not support their learning style.

As a wife of a chemical engineer, I believe his education was well worth the investment. He does not work 100 plus hours per week ( the regular about 50hours) and his salary is not 6 figures but it is close to it.
He did receive partial assistance from his family but also worked very hard during the summer and weekends to come out debt free . I do see a few mistakes people make in choosing what to do after high school, look at what your aptitude is and research the future job expectations and what the salary opportunities are then try to find a match. There are too many who seem to go into their post education with not much thought and research into it. Also there are companys who are willing to invest in their employees further education, that is how I obtained mine.

I think an University/College education is very important especially in today's competing economy. I don't however think the cost of a decent education should be so high it takes 5-10 years off to pay the debt! I speak for myself being a visibile minority I know i would not have been offered the opportunities I had if I did not have my post secondary education. As someone else mentioned there are certain life lessons and experiences you learn from attending a post secondary institution that will be with you for the rest of your life. You need those skills to function in today's workplace.