Disgruntled teachers fight for increased pensions

From my perspective, teachers needs to hold their own accountable. I liked the point that to get the best you need to offer higher money. Obviously offering more money might get some better people that can teach and "Do". But this is only a valid option if the whole profession adjusts. I hear about teachers working longer than the 6 hrs, but this is only some of the teachers. I remember some coaching sports or doing clubs after hours. I also remember some beating the buses out of the parking lot. I laugh when the talk about all the extra time they spend marking and preparing leason plans at home. Well, my opinion - if it is really everyone spending this time, do it at work. Work a full 8 hrs a day no more no less. It is really fortunate for this profession to be able to work the flexibility that you have. I'd have no problem with the compensation if the profession wasn't so flexable with the required hours and effort put forth. I personally havn't heard about any termination due to performance, harrasment, inappropriate behavior -yes, teaching ability - no. Maybe its time for the profession to stop bringing up the collective whole and to start including merit based pay - I say 30% of the teachers wage should be merit based. Lets see merit pay should be ~ 25% student & parent evaluation, 25% student performance on standardized testing, 25% for extracuricular leadership, 25% Principle discreation. This should fix the profession and reward the best teachers.

Teachers are among the richest pension receivers in the Province, and they're seemingly never satisfied with what they've been getting.
All we ever hear from their union is "More".
All we ever hear from the Teachers themselves are complaints that they are underpaid, overworked, and not "respected" enough for their contribution to society.
What hasn't been said here is that the Proviincial Government contributes an equal amount (11%) to their pension fund, which in effect gives the teachers an 11% salary increase on top of their present salary.
All this to a pension fund which is currently greater than the GDP of many countries in this world!
What also hasn't been said here is the obscenely generous cash payout teachers receive when they retire.
They receivea retirement benefit consisting of a cash payment for sick days they didn't use while they were working---this cash payment can often be as much as 25 or 30 thousand dollars if they didn't use any of their sick days.
They have the nerve to cry "poor" when many pensioers in this Province have lost their pensions, or don't receive a pension, yet are expected to subsidize teachers through their taxes!
Disgusting.

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I am Ontario teacher. I have been forced out of my job and onto a disability pension. I'm not surprised to hear fighting over money in our union. My guess is they messed up with investments. I was a fine teacher and I loved my job. The fact that after 20 years of service to this province, I can be totally ignored by my union tells me that OSSTF is defunct. We have no teacher's union in Ontario at the moment. The Harpies continue to cause civil war between teacher's, parents and students.

I am ashamed to even read most of these comments; I volunteer at my kids school and have friends who are teachers, not being one myself. The official hours, that some of you calculated are about 5,5 per day, however I personally know, because I have seen them there working; not one of them would be able to survive working only those hours. Many of them are at work shortly past 6 am and leave late; some even stay till 10 at night and if not then they do the work at home, they do so many extracurricular activities and remedial work with your kids and for your kids that they can simply not enjoy the breaks being poited out here. Shame on you! And talking about the salary any professional extpects to be paid accordingly, to me, they are underpaid for what they do and what they have to deal with. Parents leave most of the responsilbility for upbringing to school and when something happens and their child should suffer consequences they run to accuse the school and teachers for abusing their children?! Try working with your kids at home first; instill a sense of responsibility and respect at home and stop blaming others for the problems with your kids. Now to the pension; when you all will be willing to give up the amount that is being deducted monthly from their salary toward their pension, then you have a right to discuss this pension issue. Stop talking about this if you are not doing so and are able to enjoy your salary without these significant deductions. Enough already! What is your problem with teachers?, nowhere in the entire world teachers have to suffer so much abuse?!

Interestingly enough most of you are bashing teachers and their pensions and no one is diguisted with our politicians and and their behavior and spending of our money. I am fine with my taxes contributing to teachers salaries and for that matter if teaching was private business they'd be paid much more???!!! Look at the number of senators (and what do they do??? for me???) we have and MPs for that matter and their hours and activities and all the benefits of their jobs and their pensions and hours they work, how many activities and remedial work do they work for us?? start discussing that and leave athe teachers alone.

Has MSN ever heard of free speech. I think not.

Some interesting points have been made by a lot of people. Cecil has made some very valid statements about teachers in the classroom and I agree it takes a special person to be able to deal with all those different personalities and ensure that the curriculum set by the provincial government is followed. Perhaps C.M.A.R. should contact the Ministry of Education about multiplication and teachers who "don't care". I too am not a teacher but find the rhetoric somewhat humorous as most everyone missed the point of the article and that being survivor benefits. Why should someone who marries late in life or re-marries and wishes to ensure that God forbid pass away before their partner not receive benefits for more that ten years. I intend to continue to monitor the outcome of this issue. Keep up the good work teachers. I hope that someday parents will realize that it wasn't just them that shaped thier children but TEACHERS as well. Perhaps supporting teachers would go a long way to curing some of the pronlems that are perceived in the comments. Damn, there I go getting off topic.

It seems that everytime a government related profession is attacked all the jealous ignorant people comment. I'm married to a teacher and it's no walk in the park. Students today have more attitude and are very violent. Ever try to kick a drug dealer out of your class. Or defend yourself when a student you reprimanded claims you made sexual advances? Your career is over even though you are innocent. Yes there are teachers that don't do their jobs as my wife and I deal with this issue on a yearly basis but that's in every unionized environment. Almost every teacher my kids have been stuck with is unqualified or does not care for their job. In the end instead of being jealous about what kind of benefits people have go back to school get a better job and get a life.

Most people got off topic on this one. If they allowed that then next it would be a retiree getting a divorce and marrying a much younger person and wanting the benefit to pay out for another 30 or 40 years. Some private companies reduce the pension to spouse if more than five years younger than retiree. The teacher's pension is rich but it will soon be in trouble with early retirement. Just remember that we the tax payers must make up the difference so caution is in order.

A few years ago, I got involved with the local Junior Acheivement organization and a program called The Economics of Staying in School. Basically business people would go into grade 7-8 classes and show them what things cost in the real world. It is meant to provide a dose of reality in case some of these kids think dropping out is an attractive option. At the school we were assigned to, the teachers completely ignored us. They wouldn't even talk with us during the lunch break in the staff room. When we returned to the place where we were to meet after school, we found that this was a common experience with several teams in the schools they were in. We were quite puzzled. Why would teachers react like this, especially since the program was designed to reinforce what they do. The answer was quite depressing. The local radio station that sponsored this particular program had recently aired an editorial not supportive to area teachers and their threat to strike (again). This was their way of showing their displeasure. So much for putting the kids first. Teachers in Canada make way more than their US counterparts and I doubt classroom conditions are anywhere near as bad. Compared to teachers in the US, teachers in Canada have nothing to complain about but you'd never know it when you listen to them. The neighbour at the end of my street worked for Nortel. He retired a few years ago. His pension is worth 40% of what it was when he retired. Think anyone's looking out for him?

To clarify, teachers do have a very difficult job, and it gets worse every year. What they have to deal with in the classroom is not for the faint of heart. Like every large organization, there are very good teachers and there are some that shouldn't be there. Even teachers I know won't disagree with this. But just like with every other large, unionized profession, it's almost impossible to get rid of the bad apples. Unions are wonderful entities for the membership. Not so much for the people they are serving. Unions have allowed public sector compensation to blow past what people in the private sector earn, doing comparible work. If you think this gravy train is going to go on forever, take a good hard look at Europe. Many countries are on the verge of bankruptcy paying for the lavish entitlements the unions squeezed out of them over the past few years. The only reason we're not in a full fledged depressiion is that private sector companies have remained solvent by keeping salaries in check and expenses low. Everyone points at the salaries some CEO or bank president makes to justify the latest union settlement but the overwhelming majority of people working in the private sector will be working past 65 while the average retirement age in the public sector is 58. Let's see, stagnant compensation, little job security, poor benefits and probably no pension, and I get to work until I'm 67. Where do I sign up?

While I find most of the posts here absolutely ridiculous, there are a few that actually have a clue. I am a teacher and would argue that our group can be a big, bunch of whiners when it comes to pensions/salaries (specifically this article proves a point). Realize however that the education field has changed drastically since the "good ol' days", where teachers were respected, students learned and moved on to become contributing members of society. To say teachers "don't care" as CMAR states is absolute rubbish. To be in this profession, at least in any longevity, you HAVE to care...the money/pension/holidays (all the things people look at teachers as having PERKS) just don't add up considering the amount of disrespect (especially from know it all parents and students) we have to endure. I care about all my students and go out of my way to try to get them to learn something...in some cases...ANYTHING...just to have parents/administration tell us what we should be teaching, how to teach it and that we simply wrong for giving Johnny a B- at the end of an academic session. Students are overly coddled, given too many rights when they are supposed to come to school for a dual purpose...to be EDUCATED and SOCIALIZED. Parents and administration hinder this learning and when they come out, unable to function in society, everyone holds the teachers responsible but fail to see where they promote a victimized and entitled lifestyle from a very young age. It is impossible to teach under these circumstances and expect success. Great points Cecil Scott.

as far as the pension is concerned, stop complaining and let's get on with it.

Trixie, U Suck, Rossa and all you disgruntled people...PLEASE stick to the issue at hand here. We are talking about spousal survivor pensions and marriage after retirement. Please remember, we teachers paid into this plan throughout our teaching career. We all paid the same. Why should it matter WHEN we decide to get married? This is totally unfair. If a teacher gets married after he/she retires, should be entitled to the same survivor benefit for spouse as those who marry prior to retirement.
And those of you who have a bone to pick with the quality of teaching/teachers and education?? Go and complain to your MPs...Take your fight where it will do some good...and check out their pension plans and salaries while you're at it! Smile.

It is true most of us got off topic, however only because everytime any issue discused is related to teachers it gets down to teachers being lazy and greedy. Not so, at least I don't think so, but some of the lovely members of public like to believe that, and I really wish for them to try to teach their children and actually a classroom for that matter. I am uphold with that, not even being a teacher, but both my parents were teacher back in Europe and they both agree that teachers here work longer hours and have tons more responsibility put on them with constant public harrassment and bashing. Unheard of anywhere else in the world.

This is a no brainer OTPP is right-what possible justification is there to award survivor benefits to a newly acquired spouse.

The problem we are having is universal, and doesn't only relate to the teachers. It is human nature to expect a reward for the job we are doing., We believe whatever we do is important therefore they are expected to rewarded accordingly. Forty years ago, in business if you didn't work you were fired, if you work hard and you thought that you should get more money, you had two options, to find a new job.or open your own business. With the event of unions, our working normes have changed. The quality of work of an individual is no longer important. We can no longer seperate a good worker from a bad. When our government hires employees they think it is better to have an employee working, then on welfare, since either way they have to pay for them.
The average working citizen didn't mind this agreement, until the benefits that were given were greater then what they themselves received. Defined pensions have to be abolished, since they are not fair to the other workers actually paying for them. Many other benefits given to government employees also have to be reduced. Bottom line, no incentive to keep paying and no
money left to pay either.

You guys have lost the whole essence here.....we are talking about money that WE, as teachers have paid into a fund to give to our spouses in the case that we should end up deceased. The issue at hand is that this benefit, which was paid for by ALL teachers in Ontario, is only good if you are married before retirement. How is that?? hmmmmmm? What is this all about? Totally unfair and discriminatory....and the Human Rights will see it that way I am sure.

Phillip.....we, as teachers have every right to award spousal benefits to our surviiving spouse if one dies. What does it matter if the spouse is "newly acquired"? We have paid the same amount into this benefit plan as anyone else regardless of when we married......your argument is moot!

Several random thoughts after reading through all the comments:
1. Talking to a teacher friend of ours, in south-west Ontario, there is a five year waiting list to become a teacher. Has anyone else heard this?
If this is true, even if I wanted to become a teacher, I could not afford the long wait to get into the teacher union and enjoy the public sector benefits.
2. I could not be a teacher. Trying to create a learning environment with 25 - 30 kids? I would go crazy. Another tangent to think about - any thoughts about making boy-only schools mainstream? Boys appear to learn differently than the way the current school system says they have to learn. (Disclaimer - I am a man, with a son and a daughter...)
3. I agree with the comment made by one individual about reducing the benefits if the retired teacher marries someone more than 5 years younger than him/herself. Seems reasonable especically since several teachers made the comment about all teachers paying into the plan, my thought being then all teachers would then pull roughly the same amount out based on general life expectancy rates.
4. If teachers were not unionized, salaries would decrease, as would benefits. This is based on my point # 1 and the many economic courses I had to sit though (basic principle of supply & demand). Teacher retention would then be based on skill, involvement, hard work, and of course some office politics like every workplace. Not based on who was hired first.
There, I think I covered what the article was discussing, as well as several of the many tangents.