Which party leader is most fit to run Canada's economy?
The last two nights have been compelling TV for Canadians, if your definition of compelling TV means watching the nation’s PM squirm with a “How long do I have to let these creeps scream at me for buying fighter jets before I can squash them like bugs?” look on his face. In two different languages, no less.
Indeed, Wednesday’s French language debate marked the end of two nights of bilingual bickering, but are we any better off because of them? Does anyone feel clearer about any of the candidates’ platforms, other than the notion Stephen Harper insists on standing like he’s strangling a wide-bodied Verne Troyer as he speaks?
From a money standpoint, there’s plenty of nitty-gritty facing this election. So, going forward, which candidate do you think is most fit to run Canada’s economy?
While the four leaders made a point at the debates to highlight just how strong Canada’s economic rebound has been, they don’t all agree on the future of our country’s fiscal outlook.
A breakdown of the four parties and a key point to each of their economic platforms, as featured in the Globe and Mail:
Conservatives – Keep taxes flat on families and consumers, while imposing no tax hikes to businesses that create jobs for Canadians.
Liberals – Reverse the much-maligned, Conservative-led corporate tax cuts, saving $5.2 billion.
NDP – Give employers a $4,500 tax credit for every new job they create for Canadians.
Bloc Québécois – Eliminate the two-week employment insurance waiting period; increase the benefit rate from 55 per cent of wages earned to 60 per cent.
Jobs, of course, are the main focus when talking economic outlook, as is the candidates’ propensity to characterize every Canadian family as “ordinary” and “hard-working.”
But which of the above promises strike you as a) most important, and b) most likely to be kept, enforced and executed?
Which of the four party candidates – Stephen Harper, Michael Ignatieff, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe – do you think is most fit to run Canada’s economy?
By Jason Buckland, MSN Money
*Follow Jason on Twitter here.
Posted by: Northern Ontario | Apr 14, 2021 4:31:07 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again. For a functional democratic society, you will always have poor, middle class, upper class and the rich. I am only talking here about financial levels. It doesn't matter if someone in the poor class works harder than a rich, lazy person. Most of the upper class/rich people I know made their own breaks and sacrifices to get their.
However, in a fair society, those that are blessed with more should help out in time of need. This is one of these times. Sure I am one of those in the upper class. Not for one second am I crying that I already pay 40K+ in taxes and that I should not pay anymore. What's another $2000-$3000 in taxes for someone who makes $120K+. It's a much smaller sacrifice for me than someone who makes $20-60K per year. Who cares if I already pay my fair share. That's what makes us such a great society. Those in need can count on the fortunate ones. My only beef is to stop the useless spending from the Government who thinks everybody is entitled to more.
Posted by: Scott | Apr 14, 2021 4:41:47 PM
Colour of money, I don't feel that everyone struggles to the top by themselves. I just feel that a society in which people voluntarliy deal with each other results in the best outcome overall. Are some people better off under a government system with forced redistribution, absolutely. When a majority of people can get together and vote themselves a share of other people's wealth, of course some are better off. Where we truly differ is in believing whether that scenario is right or wrong.
It's funny you bring up indentured servants because that accurately describes the situation with respect to government "benefits" and taxation. You, yourself, alluded to as much when you describe your receiving tax supported education which results in repaying those with higher taxes in the future. If you don't believe that description is accurate, ask yourself how many times you have said to someone like me, "well, you received education and health benefits when you were growing up and now your taxes are paying it back."
Finally, do I have a choice when it comes to dealing with non-regulated banks and non-government controlled (short term) interest rates? Governments around the world are flooding economies with cheap money which keeps down interest rates. This is great for people who owe money (a category in which most governments fall into). Last time I checked, the Canadian government doesn't allow non CDIC banks, so what's your point?
Posted by: Colour of money | Apr 14, 2021 4:50:37 PM
Its just me, I know, but it warms my heart to know that the ancient Romans were debating the very same issues.
Perhaps the debate on tax and wealth rages eternally because there are no accurate analogies that everyone can understand, but there are many understandable analogies that don't reflect reality.
The only truth is that with no taxation you are living in the mountains wearing a bearskin you made with your teeth.
Perhaps the only solution is the one that we all live in already. Don't vote for a party or policy you think will benefit everyone; vote for a party that you think will benefit you. Then just tally up all the selfish votes and let the winning party do their best to be true to who they themselves voted for.
Posted by: Scott | Apr 14, 2021 4:53:57 PM
Colour of money, back on topic, you are aware that the Conservatives have had a minority government for the past 5 years, correct? They have obviously had to make concessions to other parties in order to have the budget passed. Do you think those concessions made the Conservatives spend more or less than they otherwise would have, had they had a majority?
One only needs to look south of the border to see what a true "Liberal" government budget would look like. We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. If any party wants to reduce our deficit/debt through spending cuts (as opposed to tax increases), they will get my vote.
Posted by: Scott | Apr 14, 2021 5:04:32 PM
"The only truth is that with no taxation you are living in the mountains wearing a bearskin you made with your teeth."
Speaking of an analogy that doesn't reflect reality.
Why do you feel that a society that operates on voluntary interaction would be less prosperous than one that relies on force? Do you really think that poorly of human nature that, given the chance to interact freely, we would regress to the stone age? I would like to think my interaction with my wife and friends are better because they are voluntary than they would be if I had forced them. My employer gets better work from me because we voluntarily exchange work for money than he would if he forced me (even if he paid me).
Posted by: Trixie | Apr 14, 2021 5:15:44 PM
I agree we don't need extra prisons. We need capital punishment back in a BIG way. Any criminal will think twice then before committing a major crime.
I also agree with cooperation. HOwever, cooperation NEEDS to start with the family first, NOT the gov't first. We need to teach value of the dollar, work ethic and rights and responsibility go together. THAT is what Mr. Harper stands for. THAT is what I stand for. THAT is what I teach my own family. I"m done.
Posted by: Colour of money | Apr 14, 2021 5:16:02 PM
Raise your hand if you feel that the rich, who pay more tax, don't also benefit more from the system that their tax dollars pays for.
If a corporation in Canada needs an engineer, it merely asks and they appear. Who paid for the engineer's education? I don't mean the ten of thousands of dollars of student loan money, I mean the hundreds of thousands of dollars of the 15-20 years of quality education the engineer has.
If a corporation in BC wants to move lumber to Quebec, it merely puts it on a train. Who paid for the train tracks? Who paid for the power station that generated the energy that the train used?
If that BC corporation wants to stop off in Little Dot, Manitoba to sell some of its lumber, who paid for that station in the tiny town?
People pool resources because it can be more efficient to do so. There are a multitude of things that no person or corporation will pay for individually, but will all benefit from.
Tax buys these things.
I said that pooling can be more efficient, but it doesn't have to be. The steward of this pool needs to be 1) honest and 2)effective. I think that the later is more important than the former. In my humble opinion, so does everyone who votes for Harper. I think that having both is best however, so Iggy will get my vote, with or without an evil coalition.
In everything there is a season. There is a time for tax cuts and big spending, and a time for tax hikes to pay off what was borrowed. Now is the latter.
Posted by: Colour of money | Apr 14, 2021 5:37:23 PM
Scott, read Leviathan by Hobbes.
Or Lord of the Flies, for that matter.
Even with laws and "civility" how much domestic violence exists?
How much more would exist with no tax funded police?
This is a silly argument. A certain level of taxation is necessary for everyone except mountain men was my point.
Back to specifics, the only reason that Harper was able to spend and pull us out of a recession was because of the room given to him by more than a decade of Liberal budget surpluses. I don't chide Harper for creating deficits through tax cuts and spending, because he did what was necessary at the time. In fact, I supported him for a time for doing exactly that. However, the time for his strong arm anti-democratic posturing has come to an end. He did his job during a tough economic period. Now that is over. Now the country needs to let the Liberals back into power to pay back what we needed to borrow. Canada has been living with straightforward Keynesian economics for at least 15 years. Let's stick with a recipe that works.
Posted by: Scott | Apr 14, 2021 5:41:27 PM
So, Colour of money, you're saying that without government spending money on public schooling, you wouldn't send your kids to school? Do you honestly believe that without government, there would be no schools? No roads/railroads? No electricity? (I assume you don't live in Alberta like I do, government isn't responsible for electricity here yet somehow I am able to view this on my computer)
Of course people pool resources, I'm not denying that. I'm saying it is voluntarily pooled resources, as opposed to those obtained through force (i.e., taxes), that result in better outcomes. Say I invent a product that I think will make millions (and they only way to do that is for the product to appeal to people), if I am unable to raise money to get that off the ground, don't you think that is the market's way of telling me it's not likely to work? Why should government step in and force people to fund it through taxes, yet they do it that all the time (green energy for example).
I notice you left out a season for cuts in spending, regardless of intention, it is telling that you left it out.
Posted by: Scott | Apr 14, 2021 5:56:21 PM
Colour of money, read Rand's Atlas Shrugged; Mises' Human Action; Hayek's Road To Serfdom; Nock's Our Enemy, The State. You seem to assume that I must be uneducated to have the views I do, after all only the ignorant would think that government is bad, right?
Canada has been living with straigtforward Keynesian economics for a LOT longer than 15 years. Why do you think we have a debt in the first place?
Posted by: Durell Wiley | Apr 14, 2021 6:36:10 PM
Someone in the forum posted a comment that the Liberals are deficit busters, which I thought was funny, given it was the Liberals and Pierre Trudeau that gave us our national debt back in the 1970's. I acknowledge that Paul Martin was a good finance minister, though.
It was MacKenzie King who said you post surpluses in good times and post deficits in poor times. That is what the Conservatives are doing, as did the Liberals before them.
The key issue now is, who is most fit to lead? Jack Layton? I admire him (he is probably the best leader the NDP has ever had) but their party dogma is too far out there for me. Elections are won in the middle. Ignatieff? I believe he is clever, there can be little doubt, but I think he is both wooden and snooty, and perhaps not to be trusted. He is not very Canadan. He was probably the best choice the Liberals had for a leader, other than maybe Ken Dryden some day.
Harper is a man who appears calm under pressure. He is very bright and is a strong leader. While I don't love everything about him, he is the most "prime ministerial" of the three candidates (forget Gilles Duceppe) and has the experience to continue to lead. The economy is stable and gaining momentum. The Conservatives are by far the best choice right now.
Posted by: paddyo | Apr 14, 2021 6:41:46 PM
How dare you pick on the liberal fiscal record they made millions upon millions for their friends, lent the money to poor people like paul martin to move his shipping company offshore and how about that poor unfotunate soul that needed the money for the hotel and golf course,yes we need more taxes so the liberal friends can live in the style they are used to,just give your money to the lieberals they will look after it for you Wink! Wink
Posted by: Albertan | Apr 14, 2021 6:42:27 PM
Firstly to the guy above who claimed the GST was brought in by the Liberals to pay off the deficit. Lol, it was brought in by the Mulroney government and they took the greatest defeat ever after its implementation (Kim Cambell managed to only get 2 seats for the Conservatives). So no, the GST wasn't a Liberal debt cutting item.
Color of money Hobbes isn't the end all be all on the topic at hand (it is a couple of hundred years old). For an overall better view try Keynsian writings from the 1930s. His stuff has a much more modern context for lefties.
Really what the other writers are getting at is more of an "Invisible Hand" approach to government. I think everybody understands that everybody should contribute to society. Its just the allocation of the expense that upsets people.
It is undeniable that the modern Liberals are a tax and spend party. Look at their platform. They plan to increase taxes to give more to students, parents with young children, elderly, Quebec hockey fans etc. Where in this spending is the fiscal restraint we currently need? Ok, now you are probably thinking what about the F35 jets? I struggle with the costs of those also at a time like this but I guess no platform can be perfect. At least the conservatives have a stated timeline for balancing the budget.
In an NDP and Liberal world it doesn't matter how hard you work you should get the same rights, privleges and resources. Think Cuba where everybody gets a $26 a month pay cheque. In a conservative world we believe in a safety net (somewhat padded but not comfortable) to catch those in society that are plummetting to the ground but otherwise believe that everybody should be free to make of themselves whatever they are able to.
In conclusion I personally don't mind people with the mindset, what amazes me is how they consider my position to be "greedy". How if I am able to work hard and accomplish things that they can't that I should give them the same as I have even if they have put no effort in.
Posted by: Eric | Apr 14, 2021 6:56:32 PM
So the Conservative government gets found in contempt of Parliament, spends our money buying jets and refuses to tell us the actual cost, spend million and million on a g meeting. Kicks the students and vets out of meetings paid for by the taxpayers and the list goes on and people really think these dopes should run the government again, and with a majority...
I think people really need to look at this last mandate, how at every corner Harper has forced the opposition parties to fight him, Harper has forced this huge waste of taxpayer money to be spent on an election that will probably turn out the same. Then what we are expected to accept a party who has been found in contmept run the government again.
Gezz and we wonder why the Bloc does such a good job representing Quebec, it is because they are the only real party that works to improve the people of Quebec who they openly admit is why they are there in the first place.
I wish my member of parliament did the same for my area of the country.
I can assure you I will not ever vote for such a contempt party as the Conservatives again.
Posted by: Steven | Apr 14, 2021 7:07:29 PM
How about NO party leader?? We have the technology, many of us have the education and the will. Skip the 'representative' part of democracy and go straight to DIRECT democracy. NO, MP or MPP pensions, wages or corruption. We already have a Constitution, fairly impartial courts, a rule of law. Should you control your destiny and laws governing you? Or should an appointed member of the Senate or an indebted representative decide what is *best* for you?
Posted by: fast eddie | Apr 14, 2021 8:58:42 PM
Was Paul Martin a deficit slayer as Finance Minister? I think not. After years of Trudeau's spend spend politics a huge dept built up. In the 80's it already approached 500 billon. With Canadian Bonds paying 19.5 % the deficits then were in the 45 billon range, due largely to debt sevicing costs. The debt at 19.5% doubles every 3.7 years. When he was in finance, interest rates dropped to less than 3%. Suddenly debt servicing costs drop incredibly. Throw in his cuts on transfer payments on health and education to the Provinces and the deficit seems to disappear. Lucky? Just like his steamship company: Get govt subsidized freight rates through Paul Martin SR., register Canadian ships in Panama ,pay sailors $2 a day , avoid Canadian taxes. The LIBERAL ENTITILMENT must stop. This includes Count Iggy and his Canadian fiefdom. He wants to be Count of Canada but shows up for work 30% of the time. VOTE CONSERVATIVE .
Posted by: Rods | Apr 14, 2021 9:15:47 PM
I for one agree with ColourOfMoney---conservatives are riding the coat-tails of the decades of liberal stewardship over the Canadian economy.....While Ignatieff may be unproven and at times a poor communicator, he is probably the best choice out there of all the parties, whether in a coalition or not. The Americanization of our nation that is currently occurring under the Harper regime, the secrecy and abundance of deplorable scandals that are emerging from the Conservatives time in power, the numerous examples of wasted money under Harper's watch are far worse than that which unseated the Liberals in the first place --- I seem to recall Conservatives up in arms about the ad scandal that plagued the Martin gov't and prepared to enter into coalition with other parties to get rid of the Liberals at the time....only to turn it around and demonize the other parties for doing the same this time around. IT reeks of double standard, and hypocrisy!
Speaking of which, I just read about some Conservatives condemning their own party’s actions for giving money to private organizations to build a hospital in Vaughn, ON....and big surprise, the organization is backed by two top Conservatives that donated heavily to the campaign which got Fantino elected in the riding. I am for responsible government, government for the people and of course any government that is good for the economy....I just want it all with a government that isn’t a public embarrassment to this country and which all but ignores and rewrites the institutions/traditions that made this country great in the first place. In my opinion, A.B.C. is my choice!!!! Taxes will always be high here no matter what government you choose, this is Canada!!! The choice here is not about how high or how low taxes should be in this country, we all enjoy a high standard of living because of government spending and public services..... Go to the states if you want to live in a society where the rich dominate, corporations rule and the common man is all but a slave to an indebted government.
MY point is that Liberals won't be the party leading us in a Bush era Americanization of this country!!!
That is All….Goodbye!
Posted by: What a load of CRAP | Apr 15, 2021 12:21:51 AM
When I was too young to vote I kept looking for the day when I would be able to help elect the person I felt could run the country into office, HOWEVER when I finally reached the age to vote I found I not longer trusted any candidate to deserve my vote and the reason is this EVERY GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL IS COMPLETELY CORRUPT AND INCOMPITENT.
The only thing I see nowadays are politicians getting charged with fraud and abuse of power and using tax payers money for personal gain.
Jean Cretien even told the people on camera during a press conference that it was a politician's job to steal and he stole his millions.
There is not one single person who works for the government for any reason other then to get set financially for life full benefits, pension, everything and doing on the backs of Canadians who can't afford everyday life.
If a politician wants to have me take an interest and mabey even support them then they would need to do the folloing, Take back every facility that produces necessities of life (hydro, water, naterual gas, gasoline, diese, hospitals) and make it so every Canadian can afford to have a home that is respectable and food and not have to worry about having to choose between the 2 and mabey even having enough to enjoy life instead of working all the time to survive and not be able to afford to retire.
I want a politician that will stop allowing 10% of the population to live i9n luxury whyile 90% live in hardship and financial oppresion and everyone works towards the good of all Canadians.
Yea I know it'll never happen and I believe in a pipe dream but you know what, REAL LIFE IS SO SCREWED UP THAT I WOULD RATHER LOOK DOWN A PIPE THEN SEE THE CRAPHOLE YOU GREEDY IDIOTS HAVE CREATED.
When the world falls apart and you rich people are just as screwed as the rest of us the only pipe your gonna see is going to be the one I am planning on using to make sure my family is fed by taking from those who caused this world to be created through corruption and greed
Posted by: Chip | Apr 15, 2021 7:06:32 AM
Vote Green Party... Elizabeth May is a goddess !! No pollution... No gashouse emissions affecting climate change... No gaz guzzling cars... No need for overpriced gasoline... No nuclear reactors for hydro... no natural gas to heat our homes. Invest in wind driven propellers... NOW !!!
Posted by: Slurpose | Apr 15, 2021 9:03:44 AM
Check out shitharperdid.com and think twice about voting conservative. Also if you like the idea of a tax on your Ipod and a tax on things like soft drinks then think twice about voting Liberal too. Vote NDP, we need someone who cares more about the people for once, without a corporate agenda in mind.