Operators getting really serious about bandwidth caps

Chazztbay said:

"I like the car analogy. Look at what happens to the 401 at rush hour. Now compare that to Internet use. You add more roads or you add more bandwidth and people will use it up because it's free. Now look at highway 407 (the Toll roadway). Much better. If you are not willing to pay for it, it can't be that important can it ? I can sit on the 401 for 2 hours or I can pay $10 and take the 407 and it takes me 45 minutes. In fact, instead of saying that Internet should be more like the roadways, it's the other way around. You should pay more to drive a longer distance than someone else. Many places in the world do just that (London England, Singapore ect.) Before you tell me you pay taxes to pay for the road..yes you pay part of the cost, not the full cost."

Your analogies are flawed in the sense that if you choose to use the 407 you will pay $10 and get there more quickly. But if you sit on the 401 you pay nothing, but at least you still get there. That analogy is perfect for explaining why Dial-up costs less than high speed. Either will get you there, but high speed gets you there quicker, for a fee. It does not apply to traffic caps.

As to paying for the 'roads', that's built into the vehicle registration, which varies based on what it is you drive - there IS a component supposedly in the gasoline taxes, but the reality is that the money flows into the general treasure to be frittered away by incompetent bureaucrats. In the world of the Internet, the 'roads' are paid with the monthly fees. And the fee is higher if I have faster access. Does that access cost the phone company more? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The only technological difference between DSL Lite, 7 Meg DSL and DSL2+ is the way the bits are set on the network card; yet they charge double for the right to go faster.

So the reality is that this is all just a contrived argument to squeeze more money out of Joe Consumer and to kill off the independent ISPs and content providers.

UBB charges you whichever 'road' you take.

If you think vehicle registration and gas tax covers the costs of roadways then I have some bad news for you. There is no reason all roadways should not be toll roads to keep the people who don't really need to be on them off. If it is worth it to you, you will apy. It's not a difficult concept. Well I guess it is here, where people assume they are owed everything for nothing. My analogy of the roads is not flawed as in other countries, and the 407 you pay more toll depending how far you go. Hence the Transponders. With a cell phone when you talk more, you pay more. There are lots of examples of this kind of pricing. If you need to travel further, you pay more on the internet or the road end of story.

I recently went from dial-up Bell to DSL high-speed.... yes unfortunately Northern Ontario gets these kind of things last... going from 3kB/s to 5Mb/s is quite the change in gears... I got a DSL package with a southern Ontario provider who corners the end-user with speed/data usage option... in other-words, if I want 5 Mb/s rate than I have to accept a get 200Gig/mth download(I use about 2 Gig/mth)but if I opt for lower data-usage pkg, then my speed drops considerably... so they still get me... $$$$$

Chattzboy;

Don't want to get into a pissing contest with you, but I don't pay to talk on my cell phone - my plan is unlimited talk and it is one price for all.

As to gas taxes and registrations paying for roads, they absolutely do - you have NO idea of how much money is taken in through gas taxes alone - consider that as Canadians we pay 40% MORE for our gasoline than they do south of the border. And since we sell them most of the oil they use, and since we are net exporters, and since their taxes are in the 40% lower price they pay, the implication is that something more than 50% of what I pay for gasoline (you might not own a car) goes for taxes;

According to Google, there are 10.5 million cars on the road in Ontario and if each used only $50 of gasoline a week on average it means that drivers in Ontario alone are paying some $13.5 Billion dollars in taxes MORE than a similar number of drivers in the US do each year (and FYI, US fuel taxes pay for THEIR road programs as well) - add to that the various road taxes and such associated with registrations, heavy vehicle taxes and so on. Also according to Google, the road construction budget for 2009-2010 was $1.8 Billion, leaving a huge amount - a lot more than $12 Billion for maintenance.

Then you get to pay for local improvement and snow clearing locally through municipal taxes, so those roads don't figure into the total.

Still think that these taxes don't cover the costs?

Drivers pay for their roads and a whole lot more (including subsidising public transit and other such things). But the analogy is still valid. You pay for the road, and you have the option, if you so choose to paying extra to get there sooner, which does include a toll based on distance, which isn't germane to the discussion. Neither is congestion charging, because that has nothing to do with travel, but rather is solely a disincentive to bringing your vehicle in the city core . . . it isn't as if they use the money to build more capacity in the core with the money they receive.

But no one charges you for the actual miles you travel on public roads (beyond the fact that you have to actually buy the gas to operate the car - and you have a lot of control over that cost - I would tend to liken that to the cost of electricity and hardware needed to go the distance, since, if you used cooking oil to power your vehicle there would be no fuel taxes at all, for example). If you choose to use a private road (the 407) then you get to pay extra.

But the public doesn't normally take those those private roads. And they make a conscious choice to do it if they do travel and pay tolls - it isn't rammed down their throats. They travel the publicly funded highways and byways and should not be penalised for how far they drive.

The Internet is no different.

Further, I find it interesating that the authors of all of these current articles keep referring to UBB as a 'Bandwidth Cap' - The reality is that it is a TRAFFIC CAP. It isn't how fast you travel (except, I spppose when they are throttling), but how much data you send down the pipe in totasl - unless, of course that daya happens to be THEIR VOIP and Video traffic.

For the idiot who wrote about the guying paying more because he uses 20gb and another uses 2gb, is completely IDIOTIC!

do you have a telephone...YUP~

how would you react when you get abill from BELL for a $19.99/mnth land line that jumps to 29.99 beacuase you made 25 more phone calls than your neigbour did!!!!

never thought of that did you, you idiot.

I personally thing that the banwith usage should not be controlled because reguardless data is going down the pipe now that should be seperte charges is the tear of banwith packages like for example 250K for one service and possibly up to 10 megabits for the rate of download not by the ammount that u down load capping peopl off on the total data usage is quite rediculous.Natually if u restrict the pipe the less water is gunna flow thru it.

Re: Nick's Analogy - you use more you pay more.

That's a pile of monkey snot. Do your landline phone provider charge you more for using your phone? I'm not aware of any landline phone provider in Canada that charges per minute. I'm with Bell, and if I use my phone for 5 hours a day or 5 minutes, my bill is the same. My DSL connection uses most of the same existing infrastructure - so there's no significant added cost to the provider to deliver ISP services. Does your cable provider charge you more for watching more TV? I think not.

This is nothing but a cash grab by the companies to try and generate revenue from something they know people want (and in this day and age, need). It doesn't cost a provider any more to deliver 1MB verses 1GB to your home. The physical infrastructure is in place, and it's not like it deteriorates with usage - when was the last time you burned a landline out from usage.

The irony here is that a lot of these ISP providers also provide additional services (digital TV, digital phone etc). To do so, requires bandwidth... ergo usage of said service could potentially increase your bandwidth usage, resulting in a case of the provider having their cake, and eating it too (double billing the way some cell providers charge you for internet access (k) AND airtime (minutes) while accessing the internet)!

Who are some of the richest in Canada Thompsons, Rogers, Shaw,Irvings, and the Canadian governments (provincial and Federal)who cozy up and let them fleece the masses. Media is great for the rich and lets fleece the people with overpriced and uncompetitive products. Do they give refunds when you use less than the allotted amounts no! but you will pay for the occasional overuseage

About 15 years ago I lived in a house with a rotary dial phone and rarely saw my phone bill exceed $15/month. I then bought a new house and was told that I now HAD to have a touch tone phone and the basic line fee was over $25. Cheaper service to provide, but higher cost to the customer. I feel the same thing is happening here and this is only being done because they can get away with it. As for this bunk of Canada being so big & there being so few people. Most of us live in a small number of cities and the vast bulk of the population lives within 100 miles of the US border. If the CRTC can't stick up for Canadian consumers get rid of them and let us buy our services from the states.

Anon, Singapore DOES charge for distance, not just congestion traffic. I have been there. It is a much better system than public free usage. Stay off the damn road if you don't want to pay.

Also I am not sure where you got that figure for cars from as the total for Ontario is 7.7 million road MOTOR vehicles. The others are not motor vehicles so that skews your math by 1/3. You can buy gas for a trailer or bicycle but it would just be silly.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/trade14b-eng.htm

Have you thought maybe some of the justification is for preventing theft ? People with an open WiFi connection can have others sponge bandwidth and pay nothing otherwise. A residence in a University could have 1 person paying for service and many people around them using it for free.

The infrastructure doesn't deteriorate with usage, but the speed will. As more and more people use the same infrastructure for a wider array of things like streaming content, gaming ect the only way to have people restrict usage is to make them pay. If they want to have bandwidth available to provide their TV, phone ect that is their perogative. If you want to leave your computer on all night downloading porn, that's up to you but you're going to pay for it.

For Pierre who is calling someone an idiot. I have news for you moron, a lot of other places in the world charge per call for local calls on landlines. People in Canada are used to getting things for free (unlimited use) and get angry when they get taken away. You have an option, don't use it. Banks charge higher fees for people who use the ATM or teller more, but I am sure you will cry about that as well, like the spoiled child you seem to be.

Iagree with not using all your bandwidth i think we should all ask for money back if you dont use or extend it to the following month it is ours to use know

The real BS is it is only the people that are using huge amounts of data that are complaining.

Why are they complaining? ... because they are no longer getting something for nothing!

Frankly, I look forward to you guys paying for network upgrades so that I can get better speeds in the evening when I need it. I don't use a lot, but I do like it to be speedy when i do. It isn't because SOME people are hogging the bandwidth.... and don't want to pay for it.

GUESS WHAT, THE FREE RIDE IS OVER

It isn't yours to use and ask for money back/carryovers. You pay for access and speed. You are allotted a cap before you have to pay more. It is similar to peak pricing of electricity. You don't get a refund if you use less from one month to the next. You don't get a refund on your cable bill if you watch less TV in a month. If you buy food from the grocery and don't eat it they don't take it back. Use it or lose it. Grow up, stop compaining.

I agree with skyfire and elmo2006. I just bought a HDTV and am shocked how much the extra stuff that I need to run the stupid thing cables,powerbars, HDTV box from shaw at $178.00 etc. etc.
Soon they will charge us for how many hours we watch t.v. You think I'm kidding? just wait it will come to that yet.
I feel like returning the bloody t.v. cancelling my cable and internet and ending my cell phone contract. It's all a racket by the greedy companies whom by the way make huge profits each year.
We are bombarded by the media into thinking we "need" all these devices and services.
I long for the simple days, and I am only 46 years old. By the way Rob, if you think the extra fees will go towards "beefing up the network" you are dreaming buddy. The extra profits will go to the CEO's of these companies. Have you been watching the news at all in the last year? Do you know how a large company calculates it's executives pay? By the profits at the end of each fiscal year.
Huge profit = huge bonus! Yeah big companies are all about the consumers happiness and being fair. NOT!

The GREEDY companies like Roger's and Bell shouldn't have it both ways. If they want to charge $2.00 for every GB OVER say a 25 GB limit, then they should refund $2.00 for every GB UNDER your limit!!!

I used to be a Roger's customer for EVERYTHING they sold, from cable and high speed to home telephone, cell phone and even video rentals and magazine subscriptions. But because of their HORRIBLE service and prices, I only have my cell left and will cancel next month as that's when my contract expires. BTW, Roger's did send me those "you are approaching your limit" messages, but I'd get them only AFTER I went over by at least 10 GB so I switched to a smaller company that uses Bell lines and gives me UNLIMITED bandwidth at the same speed as Roger's and for half the price!!!

And to the jackass above who is whining about "illegal" downloading, when theaters started charging $15 for a movie, I started renting at the video stores, when the video stores started charging $8 for "new" releases that stayed "new" for over six months (no wonder Blockbuster is BANKRUPT), I started copying discs from Netflix and sharing with my friends and co-workers. But when the greedy cable companies had my USA satellites cut off, I stopped renting, cut off my cable, went with Free To Air satellite and stated DOWNLOADING every TV show and movie I wanted - I haven't had to watch a stupid commercial in years!

I also bought dozens of CDs every year until the greedy record companies shut down Napster. AFTER that, I stopped buying any CDs and have ONLY downloaded music ever since. I'm sick of the greed of these companies. I must have purchased Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' about a dozen times since it came out - first on tape (which I had to replace due to wear several times), then on CD, then in various box sets etc. and the price has always been just as high. You would think after 30 years, the price would have come down a little!

And I also download all my magazines in PDF format now as well as books and COMICS - which I stopped collecting when they went from about $1.25 to $5 and $10 per issue!!! If companies with monopolies weren't so greedy, I'll still be giving them my money but greed shouldn't be rewarded. So until I can buy 'The Wall' for $15, buy a comic for $2.50 MAX, see a movie for under $10, buy a magazine for $3.00, buy a DVD for $12, or get cable with a decent selection of channels and NOT all that Zionist/racist/pro-APARTHEID Israel crap for under $75/month, I'll keep getting everything for the price of my internet connection!!!!! I hate that a handful of dirty/greedy billionaires (just like the ones that fix our gasoline prices with the collusion of ALL the corrupt politicians) have made me steal, but just boycotting them wouldn't teach them anything. I've been boycotting Israel for over a decade now and they still practice their BRUTAL APARTHEID on Palestinian children.

And if the internet providers get even more greedy and lower the bandwidth, throttle the speed or increase prices, I'll get my internet over satellite from Europe and wait until some Canadian companies realize a monopoly and control over OUR crooked politicians doesn't make it right when they steal either.

There is a large misunderstanding here among many commenters regarding how internet bandwidth works.

The dilemma ISP`s are facing is as follows: as more and more people are beginning to get their media online (downloading news, tv, movies) this all creates traffic and congestion. The networks currently are not at a point where they can deal with this massive traffic problem without suffering from a slowdown in service on everyone.

How would you solve this problem...well, it has been proven time and time again that the populace responds to financial incentives more than anything else. You can`t have one upfront fee and then let people have a free for when there is a limited resource, or else it disappears very quickly and everyone is willing to spend time waiting to get as much as possible: The tragedy of the commons. You need to guide behaviour through financial motivators. If the cable companies released a statement to everyone saying "please think of your neighbours, be respectful-use responsibly during high traffic hours, don't have videos downloading all the time" . The only thing everyone on this message board would do would be to ramp up their usage in order to take as much as possible because they know their neighbours are going to do the same thing. Humans are inherently rationally irrational.

All this charge does is make people more aware of the fact that you need to be conscious of your downloading habits...anyone complaining about 100Gb/month likely has absolutely no idea just how much that actually is....if you were constantly using more than this in the past and feel that this will significantly curb your usage, then you are disgusting....get outside and get off of these online message boards.

Zakimar,

You basically just admitted 15 times over in your post that you are a low life that wants to have everything in life for free. Grow up.

And rob you just admitted you are a Zionist/racist (probably crypto) jew that supports APARTHEID Israel and is too stupid to read to the end of my message BEFORE spewing your hateful propaganda.

Wow...not at all, I read your post all the way through. When, and at what point did you mention that there are costs associated with bringing a service to market and that you should shoulder a portion of this cost to be a productive member of society?

If you have a few children watching youtube videos & you store home movies in cloud computing you'll quickly eclipse 100GB easy.
What some of our 'leaders' fail to understand is that these issues are the canary's in the coal mine. Rogers, Bell, the big 5 banks tax equity, and a few other issues come up again and again in citizens blogs and discussions. If one needs to see the logical end point just turn to any news source and look up what's happening in Tunisia at the moment (and is going fairly well all things considered).

People running these large corporations and a few people who think they are capitalists are too stupid to see the big picture and need to be guided by someone with intelligence. We need our elected officials to grow up and do the job they are paid to do. If they fail to, history has demonstrated what will happen.