Should Canada have a guaranteed annual income?

James,
I hear your reasoning but I would bet if we dig deeper there are many reasons for this poor women's misfortune. Tell me, while she was prosperous did she save and invest her money wisely or did she do as most of us have or are doing presently, spend, spend and spend some more. Many things have happened in my life and while others have had influence, the majority of fault lies with me. I blame no one other then myself for where I am financially. I believe most financial problems are the result of are own sense of entitlement. Just as many south of the border do not have health insurance, it is not because they don't have the money to get it, it's because they will drink, smoke, vacation, eat out having a good time rather then watch their dollars go out with no return.

I strongly disagree with a guarantee income for everyone. So I hope government will stop playing Robinhood with taxpayer's money. We are over taxed already as the average Canadian already have to work six months to pay their taxes.

james, your little story about about the alcoholic divorced wife is just plain stupid. if people were not living beyond their means than they would not have had to worry about paying for their exorbitant lifestyle. If you have a high paying job than you should be educated and financial responsible enough to plan for the future and know that you should not be living beyong your means. As for the guaranteed income; DEFINATELY NOT!!! This country needs to learn to stop handing money out to every tom dick and harry just because we live in a "social system". People that are physically able to work should, no execptions! I think that this generation has become very wise to the fact that they can just sit on their as@#, pop out a few babies and make more money each month than an honest hard working family on minimum wage can. It is truly sick. Some people suggest that if the system were to "cut these people off" that eventually they would look to crime to support themselves. Well if that is the case, than let them do the crime, get caught and then go to jail; at least in jail i know that my tax dollars will be feeding them instead of being spent on drugs and alcohol.

Also, James, if you wish to submit a quote, a more fitting one to this topic would have been "Carpe Diem"

Dave.

The problem with this program is who is going to pay for it? Just look at Greece, Ireland, Portugal and the rest of Europe facing huge budget cutback because of their over generous social programs. Would you give a merchant money and not expect to receive a product or service. Of course not so why should we give people money for nothing. I rented rooms at one point and the student I had got the welfare money and did not have to do anything for it. He did not even have to attend high school. The result was that he never finished high school and after him leaving my house he does not even qualify shovelling manure at the local farms. If anything we should put a cap on social assistance say a maximum of 3-5 years depending on the type of educational program they enter to improve their job skills. If people know that they must acheive a certain standard then they will be motivated to do so. Free money equals laziness.

I am for it. Allowing legit mentally or physically disabled people to live an average life and not face poverty is the right thing to do! Keep in mind that you also have people that don't want to work because they would have pretty much the same lifestyle working or not. I have seen that under certain circumstances a person can have an equal life living off social assistance compared to working minimum wage job.
Some able bodied people have deeper mental or social problems and just giving them additional money won't solve anything. For those that can work but don't; there should be mandatory 1) counseling to discuss problems, motivate (stay positive) and give career guidance, 2) medical assessment & treatment for depression, anxiety, PTSD 3) weekly volunteering (minimum 10 hours per week) for charity 4) 2 years of monetary incentives for getting full time employment, 5) additional education or skill updating, etc.; People on welfare need more (mental) help than just throwing money to them and also a push to get them working once again.
If true about cutting cheques willy nilly when spent then gov't is to blame for that and reinforcing bad behavior. If someone on social assistance used up their monthly money and it was not for reasonable purchase of goods or services, then they should not get another cheque no matter what. Only if they spent the money on things that were really needed (essential) should they be given more funds by gov't.

Can we not come at this all from a completely different perspective? Why can't we lower the wages of our gov't officials. For example, in the past year I read that Mr. Harper was making around 300,000 a year to run this country. Now personally, I like this guy. However, why can't we cut that wage down by at least 100 grand? He would still be making a mountain of money, in my opinion. Now, why can't we cut every gov't worker's pay down like that? Wouldn't that save money and you're not touching the poor? (And yes...I have a high respect for those in high places, before someone gets angry with me.)

Seems like a good Idea. Should consider a housing program. People living in good housing at a very good deal may be left with enough to educate their own children. Stop the cycle of poverty from the lack education, then lack of education to poverty.

I am very frustrated with Canada's social programs. They encompass too many people and do not seem to differentiate between those abusing the system and those who truly NEED all the help that this great country can give them. Let me give you an example. When I went to university the only reason I had any sort of a "nest egg" waiting for me (which paid for all of my first year and a half out of 8 years) is because my mother passed away when I was young and my father was smart enough to put what he could into an account for my brother an I if we chose to go to school. I worked since the day I was 16 and all the way through university as well, many times having 2 jobs when not taking classes. When my savings ran out I applied for a Canada Student Loan and was of course denied because my father's whopping $50K salary was above the threshold. I borrowed from the bank and had to pay interest on this all through school instead. In my 6th year I applied yet again for a CSA and was denied because, even though I was a "mature student" I now made too much money myself with my part time jobs which I needed to have to pay the interest on the loans from the bank I had to get because CSA denied me in the first place. Nice huh? Later, I found out a friend of mine who was 1/16th native was recieving all tuition paid, all books paid plus $800/month for rent or spending money. This was not a loan and he will never have to pay it back, and yet my government refused to even LOAN me money. This is beyond ridiculous in my opinion. I am now working as an engineer-in-training but I have no life because I am busy trying desperately to pay down my $55K in student debt I built up.

The point to my long-winded sob story is that if EVERYONE has one then clearly something needs to be changed. Why does the Government of Canada insist on buoying up those who CHOOSE not to help themselves by drowning those of us who work extremely hard to get somewhere in life?

I propose, at the very least, that any able bodied AND able minded person who is living on social assistance of any kind should be forced to work for that money in some way; whether it is cleaning up municipal centres and green spaces or serving soup in the local Salvation Army. Think of how much good could be done by those able to do the work but with no ambition to find work for themselves.

So... at what age would this guaranteed income (for life) take effect ?16-18-20 ? What would be the minimum amount per annum ? Would it be taxable at a minimum ? Should there be a minimal stipulation to receive this tax-payer supported benefit i.e. annual/monthly drug testing ? grade 10 education ? Would incarcerated people be entitled to this income ? Would all refugees coming to our shores be similarly entitled to this pie-in-the-sky ? If so, get ready to to be inundated with the world's refuse.

It's VERY EASY to join the refrain of "get a job"
Particularly for those who have NEVER experienced traumatic, chronic, and severe injuries.
I worked my butt off for 22 years, only to have every aspect of my life destroyed by a careless driver, who fled the scene, leaving me in agony on the pavement.
I never expected to wind up on Social Assistance.
I am appalled that after all those years contributing to my country, I can not afford decent housing, medication, and food. $521 per month does NOT cover these basics!
YES! I believe Canada should have a guaranteed income program.
And for all those who like to feel superior, and pick on the poor, disadvantaged, and those who are unfortunately smacked down by life, REMEMBER THIS; PRIDE GOES BEFORE THE FALL.

Jane... with all due respect and in full consideration of the accident you suffered... I will assume that the authorities never caught the careless driver. Alternately, since most provinces add a charge to every Highway Traffic Act violation i.e. speeding ticket and since such revenue is supposedly kept in what's called a "Victims Assistance Fund"... have you looked into accessing this fund. Secondly, during your 22 years of working your butt off, did you at any time think of putting a few $$$ aside into a disability fund via an insurance premium ? That being said, I agree that people with disabilities or career ending injuries should be minimally compensated by the Governments... however anyone who is able bodied and capable of working should perform some work (for pay). Even if it's cleaning garbage from the side of roads or cutting grass in municipal parks. Unless physically or mentally disabled (subject to annual medical evaluation)... my belief is that NO WORK = NO PAY.

Dear Ernie - Thanks - you have raised valid points in stating your opinions which was overlooked. I only worked under her management for 1.5 years before I moved to another dept.

Dear Dave - It was not a story, but actual events, some employees were escorted out by the Security Guards. The Admin. personnel packed their personal belongs from their respective offices and forwarded same to the people's home addresses. But I agreed with you "Carpe Diem", you have made valid points.

Well maybe, the program needs to be well structured and cater for people with real needs; and not individuals who wil abuse the program.

Thanks you both for your opinions, I guess, I was only noting one flip side of the coin.

Have a great day,

James

James unfortunately Brad will continue to think like this till one day his boss will come to him and tell him that he is no longer an asset to the company and to look for employment elsewhere. As far as Ft. Mcstinky is concerned try getting a job there. You will barely survive on 5,000 in your pocket for the first month. I know as I have worked there. By the way James I liked the quote. As far as the health system being in jeopardy, its because of all the pork barrlers pulling up to the govt. trough. What board member is worth 22,000 a month in pension payments. but you dont hear about that what you hear is what it costs the govt. to fund the system and your taxes will have to be raised in order to cover the costs. All public figures should be made public, I think then you would change your mind about the poor, as they put any money right back into the system.

Couple comments

I love the "disabled" people that are on here writing near perfect grammatical responses to the above posters. Doesn't this indicate that you could likely do a desk job? Personally as long as I can see, can type, and have any resonable mental capacity I will be employed. You have proved all three by posting on here so what is the issue that keeps you from finding ANY work at all? Just because you can collect disability doesn't mean you have to. Some people are truly disabled as to be completely unable to provide any value however the % of those people is very small.

To Anne-Marie. Let me get this straight. You think taxes are too high and you want to give people money? Even if you taxed that GIC amount you would only recover maybe 10% meaning the other 90% would require MORE taxes on everybody else. You can't create money people every dollar you give out has to come from somewhere.

At the women that wants to be paid for raising her chidlren. Are you kdding? Children are a privilege that you CHOSE to have. Nowhere does it say you should have a right to raise a child and society in general should pay all the costs. You already get free healthcare and free education for your child! Now you want to be paid? Isn't having chidlren enough of a reward for you or are you that selfish and greedy that you need an economic benefit to having a child? If you can't get your life together enough to afford children then you shouldn't have them.

Lol at the guy unemployed for 2 years that can't pass grade 11 math. When you were going through high school you got a free shot at it and obviously failed, then they gave you a second shot and you still failed, and now you are upset with the free ride you have got? I have a suggestion: GO OUT AND GET A JOB TODAY!

You won't get one you want, like or that is even near where you currently are but you can easily get one. My company just hired another 20 guys no education required. We send them up north to a really cold and lousy place to do a dirty and miserable job with shift work hours. We take just about anybody that is physically fit and clean (drugs are bad with heavy machinery). Doesn't sound appealing does it. Thats why we pay around $500 a day plus all their living expenses. We can't find enough people ever and every day to work I go by physically fit people out begging and homeless. One guy was even begging while leaning up against our recruitment ad.

In the current economy people choose to be unemployed because they aren't willing to sacrifice by moving and doing jobs they don't like. If it was work or starve I think we would be amazed at the number of unemployed that suddenly had jobs.

All people deserve the minimum amount in order to be able to have a shelter and food, just because they are human beings. If poor countries were able to afford this, so could Canada. It's the governments responsibility to make sure that everybody can have a decent life, that is why they exist. Because the govenment emplyees do not do their jobs we all have to suffer. They are just not capable to do a better job, and it all stars from the top. In this case, the key is to find the right amount, not too small, so that it is usefull, not to large, so that it would not look too good and be abused. This amount, as well as the minimum wage has to be adjusted with the inflation rate every year. Business take care of their prices too ! The governments job should only be: health care, education,infrastructure like roads and energy, security at both country and local level and regulations for businesses. Canada could afford all that , free for all, if the money management would be right. It is not, that is why we should not give them a free cheque when we pay our taxes. A real democracy means not only to be able not to elect the people who would than spend our money but also for the people to spend the tax money as they decide, and that is possible today, there is the technology that would make it possible. All that the goverment should do is to post the proposed programs, and the people should be able to assign all their tax money as they see apropriate, for the local, provincial and state programs.
Well, there is a lot to discuss, maybe some other time. But the ideea should be out there, so spread it please.

i believe i am an exception to the rule. i make about 100k per year and have no kids[no plans either], common law alst 20 years,never divorced. etc.
what this means is that each and every year about 40 k goes to income tax, then i pay school about 3k intaxes to 2 rms even though i have no kids and if i did they could only go to 1 school at a time i would think. i then pay another 3k for home taxes. on top of that is the sales taxes we all pay. then the process repeats itself on any investment income.
i was unemployed more than once in my life but i only collected the insurance once so i could go back to school for a carrer change[i am forever grateful for this]. all the other times i did not collect because i settled for a less paying job until i could find a better one.
what i am trying to get across is that i am taxed to death and sick of my taxes going to people who are "on the public purse for their whole lives". i see it everywhere from single parents who chose to have more kids they could ever possibly afford to certain people who feel that they are owed it from the taxpayers.
i guess the point i am trying to get across is that if each and every person in canada gave 1 dollar more to the system than they took out of it....we would have no debt/deficit and what a workd it could be.....so go out and get a job and make sure there is no chance you live beyond that....oh yea, and get a #^% JOB!!!!!!

We are already in defecits with a huge debt in all levels of government. That said, where is this money supposed to come from? I am not going to give up my filet mignon and go to hamburger so everyone can be on an even playing field! I busted my ass off in school and I busted it again when I got out so I could pay off my debts incurred from having gone to school.

Sorry folks...we are NOT created equal. We are equal in rights...not entitlement. I am sure that I am smarter than many here and many here are smarter than me. Some of us would hate what I do and would never do it, others like myself would enjoy what I do and would gladly do it and excel at it while others yet would hate it and do it begrudgingly and never excel and complain how little they make compared to me. We are not created equal by any stretch of the imagination and it is not my responsibility to prop you up because of it.

Life is full of ups, downs, highs, lows, pitfalls and windfalls. It is what you do with it that decides how successful, rich or happy you are. Some of the richest, happiest and successful people I know don't have a pot to piss in...but their wealth, success and happiness comes from within the lives they have made for themselves and their families. NOT by holding their hands out to the government and the government taking away the incentive to actually be a productive member of society.

The only people that are going to benefit from this are:
1. the lazy
2. addicts
3. cons (including people who work under the table)
4. a few more...but you get my drift.

The ones who are going to suffer are the ones who need it most: the elderly, the disabled and our veterans who are all to often forgotten about by the people whose asses they were saving by going out into battle so we didn't have to! Call me callous, but I will not forgo the lifestyle I built for myself because of in inherent debt I never incurred because someone felt others were entitled to have something of mine that I worked for and they didn't. As for the stigmas...the only stigma I care about is the stigma that is attached to the detination of the money I WORK FOR.

Felicia, the fundamental purpose of government is to maintain social order and protect property. Anything more is a BONUS. Amazing the sense of entitlement so many people have...

Also, I am curious....to all those complaining about being poor etc...

Why are you sitting on the computer surfing the internet on a weekday?! And who bought that computer and who is paying your internet bills?

i believe in helping those with disabilities.
AS for the able who's life choices are to think 'THEY ARE OWED" the money by the people....get a job!
sick of giving the gov 50k plus per year while not qualifying for any deductions. sick of those who are having the max amount of children they can afford and thats only if both are employed.face it people...unemployment is a surety at some point and divorce is a guarantee for half...use your main head!
as far as people whose forfathers were robbed or cheated...i am sorry...but that is all...i am not responsible financially for what forefathers did[also, my forefathers were not even here then].
further...atrocities have been commited to all races....facts of the past...time to look ahead.
and to those who chose not to work....i think you should be cut off.plain and simple.
imagine what we would have if everyone decided that one motto of life was to finish it by putting in one more dollar into the system than we took out of it over our life?

``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,'' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''

``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.''

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,'' returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?''

``Nothing!'' Scrooge replied.

``You wish to be anonymous?''

``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''

``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''

``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."