Does Canada's welfare system need an overhaul?
Last month, when EverydayMoney wondered if, to ensure no Canadians could take advantage of the program, it would hurt to drug test recipients of unemployment benefits, you guys spoke up.
The consensus: yes, the benefits system is flawed (and may provide an incentive for Canucks to get cozy not working) but if there’s to be anything in need of reform, it’s Canada’s welfare structure.
Where employment insurance is concerned, out-of-workers have paid into the program, MSN readers said. Welfare, at least in the national perception, is just free cash to those who don’t want to work.
Certainly, the circumstances surrounding our country’s welfare system may not be that cut and dry, yet even the most Liberal Canadian would concede there are recipients perhaps not totally in need of the support. Critics of Canada’s welfare program are in no short supply.
Of course, that’s getting ahead of ourselves. The inspiration for this post was Britain’s highly-publicized plan last week to overhaul its national welfare system.
Long slammed for being “more generous” than it needs to be, according to the Washington Post, England will move to cut $128 billion in spending over the next four years – starting with its “overly paternal state system.”
The key points of the plan:
1) All of Britain’s benefit programs – disability and child assistance payments, etc. – will be rolled into one universal payout system.
2) Recipients who turn down more than three job offers may be penalized by losing their benefits for up to three years.
3) Further, recipients unable to find work may be forced to perform unpaid community service.
No matter where you fall on the political spectrum, those last two points, specifically, seem to fall in line with what the world needs, post-recession: a tougher stance against welfare cheats, ensuring taxpayer assistance goes where it’s actually needed.
Do you think Canada needs to perform a similar overhaul of its welfare system, tightening the payout qualifications and holding recipients accountable for their job prospects?
By Jason Buckland, MSN Money
Posted by: marconium is a rich kid idiot | Nov 17, 2021 10:11:54 AM
marconium, you sound like that rich kid that got the free ride from daddy and his friends all his life, and from what I now of HE, you sure don't read like someone that had to suffer too much in your life...HE talk a lot about compassion, charity, helping those who can't help themselves etc... Which HE are you talking about? Satan?
Posted by: Navi | Nov 17, 2021 10:17:54 AM
Yes, an overhaul is long over due. The welfare system was put in place to help folks that need to use the system, while they get back on their feet. I strongly feel our welfare system is misused and abused by people that don't want to work. The government need to tighten up the belt on this one, and have a similar process in place as Britain. If you reject more than 3 jobs, you're out of the system for an extended period and if you're in the system, then you should provide some community service when you're not out looking for a job. Welfare shouldn't be easy money but the folks that abuse the system knows how to get around it without getting caught. We need strict rules in place and let the system work for the people that needs it.
Posted by: John | Nov 17, 2021 10:23:57 AM
To Marconium
I work JUST as hard and just as long as my employers have ever worked you pompous ass and I get nothing from working extra except a pittance of a paycheque you god loving freak. You also probally believe gay marriage is wrong or that alcohol and overeating is ok but marijuana should be banned.
People like you ARE the problem and always have been.
If people helped others instead of using others to get themselves ahead we would have a great country again. But as long as the greedy Marconium's are in charge we are going to continue to get ripped off.
Also I never used subsidized housing those places are crime ridden (we have 3 major geared for income housing projects) and they are so bad I won't walk through the areas at night and I know how to handle myself when it comes to violent people.
As for the free health care as you put it I don't use it if I need help I go to the clinic or the hospital just like everyone else (btw I have never had to use the benefits system to date and don't plan on it either).
What it comes down to if you want to make enough money to live you need to become a head manager or ceo of a company, anything less then that and your being ripped off.
Posted by: Alrae | Nov 17, 2021 10:29:12 AM
Our welfare system does need an overhaul. I do not think that enforcing mandatory drug testing is constitutional without just cause,unless every adult in Canada is subjected to mandatory drug testing.There are families that need assistance. Yes I agree with the statement that seniors are in need as well.I have worked for 40 years and never collected EI. I am a senior on a fixed income now and would like to have dental , eye and semi private health benefits. I also have a daughter on disability pension .It is a legitimate claim by the way . She gets a little over $1000 a month. This is to pay rent, eat, buy clothes , presents, phone and utilities. she never has enough and has to buy her cloth at Good Will or Value Village.Christmas is a nightmare for her as her presents have to be bought at the Buck Store.Her disabliity pension is way lower than the poverty level. I am sure there are many more like her. The welfare system needs to step up and help people retrain, jobs need to be created . Perhaps insisting that the recipient find employment or work for government projects is necessary. Maybe food cards that cannot be used for alcohol or cigarettes are need. We can't keep bashing all recipients of welfare and labellings them all as druggies . Our welfare benefits, our seniors pension and disability pension all need to be reviewed so that people can live with dignity . After all we live in a great country.
Posted by: sue | Nov 17, 2021 10:30:33 AM
Well I have just got to say this. Yes the system is over abused. Our seniors are not getting what they have worked to hard for. Why is it that the system pays for new babies but the worker does not get a raise. My issue is this...if we can barely sustain the children we have on the money we make as a worker, we don't have more. But it a person on welfare can have as many as they want and get more money from the system.
A governor in the states capped the amount and said this is all your getting whether you have more kids or not. That is the way it should be on amounts.
Now my other point it is this....yes people who get unemployment should not be drug tested. But the people on welfare should be.
Just my opinion.
Posted by: Vick | Nov 17, 2021 10:33:34 AM
Growing up, I was taught that welfare was put into place those who are struggling or between jobs. It was never meant to be someones source of income for life! We have generational welfare collectors because kids were taught that you don't have to work. Now, young girls are just having babies because they figured out that they can make a fair amount of money through, welfare and the big child tax benefits. When I was young, my parents got $18.00 per child. I can't believe what CTB's are worth now! They wonder why nobody wants to work. Yes people who are capable of working should be working! Maybe there should be drug tests in place for those recieving benefits. There are so many young people collecting money from the gov't who spend their childrens money on drugs and other recreationals that the kids don't get it anyway. Maybe instead of saying that we have to bring illegals over to work fields because nobody else will do it! Here's a suggestion. Why not make all these healthy people who are collecting welfare, work on these farms! Help the illegal immigration problem at the same time. Afterall, welfare goes to them as well. All in all, yes the welfare system does need a overhaul. This is just my opinion.
Posted by: Wendy | Nov 17, 2021 10:40:47 AM
The welfare system does need an over haul,but i only hope that the people who truly need it won't be left behind. One of the problems is when you report welfare fraud nothing gets done about it.I know that from personal experience,it was reported six times and no-one has done anything about it.People on ODSP can work part time if they are able,and alot do.But welfare recipients aren't.I think that the biggest problem is the wasteful spending of the municipal,provincial and federal govt's.....they ask us to not waste but they flaunt it in our faces......all of our jobs have gone to third world countries,and we here its's good for the global economy....i personally don't care about them,canada is going to be a third world country if there are no jobs.....and does the gov't really care ?I think not.....so maybe as canadians we need to stand up and say something......instead of letting everyone else tell us what to do.....and the ward were in must be costing alot of money!!!!!which could be used in other places....
WE JUST CAN'T BLAME THE PEOPLE ON WELFARE FOR EVERYTHING.....WE NEED TO CHANGE ALOT OF THINGS.....
Posted by: Taylor | Nov 17, 2021 10:41:43 AM
You can always trust the media to throw open a topic both they and the public know nothing about, then wait for the crap to fly.
First, Canada's does not have a welfare program; it is not a federal program, it is a provincial program - so the situation is somewhat different in each province. Second, the vast majority of people who are on welfare are on it for a very short period of time. Believe me, if those of you who have never had to be on welfare ever had to use it, you would be stunned at how insufficient it is - middle-class and working people who, for whatever reason, end up on welfare often lose their housing, because they can no longer afford it, as they suddenly have virtually no money for shelter. In my job, I often see Canadians who have fallen onto welfare and they are SHOCKED at how bad it is, and how badly they are treated.The worst thing many Canadian provinces did was opt for the US welfare system. Homeless rates in Canada have risen dramatically, in large part because there are many very poor people who cannot afford shelter.
Finally, immigrants do NOT get more money than seniors. That story, which is still cruising around the internet 4 or 5 years later, was started by a misquote in the Toronto Star. Look up "immigrant benefits urban legend" - that will tell you the facts - which are stunningly lacking in both this article and commentary.
Posted by: Danielle | Nov 17, 2021 10:56:06 AM
I must say, Iam completely DISGUSTED with the majority of people's responses. This only goes to show the humiliating nature of many human beings these days. Are people so oblivious to what is really going on in the world these days? are we all so gullable to believe what the government and media spews out to us regarding welfare recipiants. The TRUTH is that the government treats individuals who need a helping hand, like we are all delinquints who are just trying to use and abuse the system. Let me give you a few scenarios: You are a young woman with a child, your partner constantly abuses you in front of your young child, after years of putting up with the abuse you decide to leave your situation and your only option is government assistance. You apply for welfare and are only eligible for $700 a MONTH(this is accurate for a single woman with one child in ontario). You ask them how are u supposed to survive on $700 for the month when that wont even cover the rent for an apartment. They tell you to stay in a shelter until they can find you housing, which can take at minimum 5 years. How can you provided the basic necessities for yourself and your child with that amount. the answer: YOU CANT.
You want to find a job so desperately but you cant cause the government tells you in order to stay on benefits you have to volunteer for FREE, for a minimum of 30hrs a month. Keep in mind they do not offer you any sort of top up, so that you can put your child in part time daycare in order to complete those hours. That is to be taken out of your measely $700. The system is HUGELY flawed, sometimes life throws us unexpected curve balls, it could happen to anybody. Say you have worked and paid you government dues since the age of 16, now you are 35 and you have to cut your hours back to part time to take care of a sick family member, the company decides to let you go, due to your lack of availability. Because you dont meet the gov requirements of 910 hours worked in the previous year, to be eligible for EI benefits, you turn to welfare. It is all a system of oppression, it is not set up in any fashion to help empower or uplift the individul, they treat you as if you have done sometime wrong to be in this situation, and the gov will punish you for it. They want records of where you are spending your money, make you participate in unpaid work, which also in turn minimizes the amount of time that can be spent job searching. God forbid you have children to take care of and cant afford the daycare costs. Are you going to take your 3 children with you while you go out looking for work? We all dont have the luxury of having friends or relatives who are available to babysit our children at the drop of a hat. With all that being said, it does not mean that I dont recognize that there are people who do take advantage, but that is like with everything in live. Do we not sometimes take advantage at work when we know we can get away with it? That doesnt mean those people who are struggling with addictions, or feel no motivation to make change in their lives, justifies society using them as the poster child of welfare recipients. Shame on YOU, who have no compassion, love and support for your fellow human beings. Keep in mind the majority of welfare recipiants DO NOT want to be on government assistance, but they just have no other choice.
I conclude this with a long SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh...yet again I am so disappointed with where the state of the world is at. Peace can only be achieved with UNITY.
Posted by: 1minute | Nov 17, 2021 10:58:59 AM
Okay, just a quick comment. I have been on 'social assistance' when I was a single parent of 3. As soon as my youngest was in school I began working. The reason that I couldn't before that was that even with help the day care was more expensive than not working. While on assistance I volunteered at school and for the hospital auxillary, it was my personal belief that if I received assistance then I was also obigated to benefit society by being a volunteer; all my volunteer jobs allowed me to bring my kids with me so didn't cost anyone anything else.
One of things that irritated me the most when I had to go to the 'welfare' office was all the young kids in the designer clothes picking up their cheques ... as a recipient of those cheques I am of the opinion that any able-bodied person receiving those cheques should be doing so only when they spend time volunteering. This would not only benefit society as a whole but it is work experience for the recipient and can also be an avenue to receive a character reference from the charity, which would increase the possiblity of getting a paying job.
And yes it has been hard to get away from assistance because the more you make the more benefits you lose. It has been hard to lose dental and perscriptions for my kids and sometimes I felt that is would have been better for them if I had kept making only a little to retain those benefits but the otherside of it is that I have give them a living example of working hard and being self sufficient and achieving goals. I make well above minimum wage and am able to own my own home; all be it small and old; it is better than renting. I have always wanted my children to achieve and do better than myself but in order to do this I had to let go of my short sighted point of view that today I make less and have less than I would if I am on assistance but tomorrow I will work harder and earn more so that one day I can look back see how far I have come and know that I have made my world, my children's world and the world in general a better place than to sit back and cry in my bowl asking everyone else to do more for me because I am poor.
And to that person who doesn't make as much as his boss, get up off your ass and work as hard as he does!! Because he is probably at work before you are and still there when you leave. Most people that make that much, live and breathe what they do for a living and they've paid thier dues, you haven't even started especially when you are sitting on your kister whining about it!!
Posted by: Canadian Truth | Nov 17, 2021 11:10:21 AM
What is most striking of all the comments, is the very self righteous attitude and acceptance of all that everyone else has a right to tell those in need, or those who are disabled, what rights they are entitled to. How about a Canada wide program that forces everyone everywhere in this great free country to submit to drug and alcohol testing. How about everyone submit all your spending, along with receipts for proof, banking info, tax info and every other possible financial record to the authority ( above and beyond rev can ) at their demand. No provacy, no rights, no dignity, no freedom. Sounds like a recipe made right out of the fuhrer. It saddens me most that you all think you have a right to dictate what rights another human being deserves based on nothing but opinion.
Posted by: Sam tibet | Nov 17, 2021 11:10:45 AM
I agree, people on welfare is taking total advantage of the hard working people that pay honest taxes for them to sit on there asses and do nothing all day. The government should start offering free courses so they can get the proper education to better themselves, or give them a choice get off your ass and find a job or you willl be cut off. Not just young people know the system older as well, easy living getting money for nothing and your cheques for free. Dire straits.
Posted by: Jen | Nov 17, 2021 11:13:41 AM
I am thankful for not being on "welfare", and I agree there are many who need it as a bridging measure until they find another job, but then again - there are many on the system out of pure laziness! I work a full day, is a single mom and do not receive any support funding - I have no debt, but I do rent and have to pay for hydro, etc., leaving me less than $400 per month for groceries, food, clothing for 3 of us (2 teenagers). Now I am asking myself - is it worth it for me to slave myself for $400 per month? or is it just easier to sit at home, make the same / even more doing nothing, and my kids "qualify" for all kinds of funding?
As someone else said - stop paying Quebec all that money so they can provide cheap daycare, schooling and even super cheap university education. I want to add to that - stop paying immigrants more than what our senior citizens get!! Those seniors worked their lives to support our country - why should they be penalized while others come to our country, and sit on their asses, cashing in on our "generosity"? (PS. I am also an immigrant from another country - but never claimed one penny from our government).
Maybe our politicians should show some backbone and say "ENOUGH" and do something about our welfare - the heck with that extra vote they might/might not get .. I am sure, there are many who will cast more votes if they see the politicians addressing these issues.
I will for sure then not mind paying all the taxes I am paying - but I can ill afford supporting myself - I DON'T want to support those who can support themselves, but who are too lazy to work!
Posted by: Tim | Nov 17, 2021 11:16:44 AM
Welfare should be made available to help those who cannot work due to physical or mental illness. Anyone else who is on welfare and, is able bodied, should be put to work cleaning the streets, parks, highways, etc... before they can receive their cheque. How about providing continuing education so that the folks on welfare can eventually find a job that is higher paying than minumum wage. I believe it was Ralph Klein that offered to pay the bus fare to Ontario for anyone on welfare in Alberta. Who is the dummy him or the province of Ontario?
One thing that the public should note is that our socialist system is at the mercy of the public employee unions who do not want to see the demise of the welfare system. Think about it like a business. If you are a government welfare case worker do you want to lose all your customers (welfare recipients)? They WANT to have people on welfare to justify their jobs.
Posted by: dan | Nov 17, 2021 11:22:01 AM
Single employable person: ANNUAL INCOME, so you can live on this posters can you really ?
•N.B. - $3,427
•N.L. - $8,198
Person with disability:
•Alta. - $7,851
•Ont. - $12,057
Lone parent with one child:
•Alta. - $12,326
•N.L. - $16,181
Couple with two children:
•N.B. - $17,567
•P.E.I. - $21,213
and to get you must verify and confirm that you are looking for work ?
There are two different social assistance programs:
•Ontario Works, and
•Ontario Disability Support Program
•live in Ontario
•need money right away to help pay for food and shelter, and
•be willing to take part in activities that will help you find a job
In 1986, a single person on welfare in Alberta received roughly $10,000 a year. By 2005, that amount had dropped to $5,050 per year
just saying be careful what you wish for, it may cost you more in taxes
Posted by: Rob | Nov 17, 2021 11:32:48 AM
In Vancouver, more than 70% of homeless people apply for welfare and get denied. Making it even harder to receive welfare would then increase homelessness. Homeless people are a greater burden on our economy - via things like property crime - than welfare is.
Posted by: Mike | Nov 17, 2021 11:35:02 AM
I say if you are disabled you get disability. If you want welfare you MUST have a job. If it is a paying job then great. The system will supplement your income to a certain level. If you can't find a job then the system will obviously need to supplemnt you more to get you to a standard level, BUT you must do community service for 40hrs every week!
Posted by: joy | Nov 17, 2021 11:35:02 AM
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes to the point that it is almost painful to type in my version of what i've seen go down, and i've had to be back at work as a mother of one since my daughter was 4.5 months old,,, yes yes yes the system needs to change!
Posted by: Wally | Nov 17, 2021 11:35:04 AM
Are we talking about revamping welfare for the citizen or are we wanting to revamp and overhaul our pernacious Corporate welfare system.
Personally I do believe if you took a look at all the figures you would agree that Corporate welfare is not only out of control but much more expensive in a larger variety of ways.
I hear somebody close to power is currently travelling the nation trying hard to convince Corporate Canada of the benifits inherent in investments in researcdh and development. His main thrust is that private intrests will benifit themselves investing private monies in themselves rather than depending upon the dole. Com'on Corporate Canada, lets get with the program!!
Posted by: Ron Joseph | Nov 17, 2021 11:41:17 AM
Ovehaul welfare? immigrants and refugees get more in monthly payments then our retired seniors.
life-time welfare reciepients recieve more than the self employed. Politicians have gold plated pensions. The justice system is really 'the criminal justice' system because that is who gets looked after. lol, and it will just get worse!