Employers crack down on retirees who 'double dip'
If retired teachers, drawing from one of the best pension plans in the country, keep working after leaving the classroom, are they unfairly double-dipping and taking jobs from younger, less expensive teachers?
Depends on who you ask, I guess.
But the number of teachers padding their pensions with contribution-free income has certainly increased in recent years.
Not that teachers are the only double dippers around. Canadian Forces pensioners are often reborn as reservists. Legions of retired civil servants get rehired as consultants every year. And then there are the nation's politicians.
Are these folks milking the system? In some instances, probably. Although there's an argument to be made for the experience and expertise the recently retired can bring back to the job.
Still, a recent Globe and Mail investigation found many school boards don't really monitor how often retirees work, leading some to take advantage of the system. It also means new, often visible minority teachers are being shut out from gaining valuable classroom experience as supply teachers.
Although both groups earn the same in daily supply roles, retirees often earn double the new teachers’ rate for longer-term assignments. As a result, the province’s 10 largest school boards alone could have saved more than $16-million last school year by turning to new teachers instead of pensioners, the Globe reports.
Oddly enough, under new rules announced last month, many pensioners will actually see an increase in the number of supply days they’re allowed to work while the government and its teachers union look for a longer-term compromise.
As of 2012, all retirees will be allowed to work 50 days a school year while collecting their pensions, compared to the current rule of 95 days for three years and 20 days thereafter.
Is double-dipping a big problem where you work? Would you go and come back? Do you see a need for better contracting rules when dealing with retirees?
By Gordon Powers, MSN Money
Posted by: Vic Leutschaft | Jun 9, 2021 7:32:55 PM
It is not up to the school boards to monitor how ofter retired teachers work. If retirees work more than the alloted number of days per year, they lose their pension. All should be allowed to work and be productive,making contributions to our taxes, employment insurance, etc. I dispute the Globe's report that over 16 million could have been saved by the 10 largest school boards ( in Ontario?) by not hiring pensioners for supply teachers. Mr Powers, this report needed more research and fewer vague statements. As a financial columnist, we expect better reporting from you!
Posted by: Ajay | Jun 10, 2021 12:11:03 AM
It is a huge surprie as to why the retired employees are allowed to work again in the schools as if they were interested to teach, why did they retire in the first place. Secondly, once a teacher is certified, no one should question their ablity to teach; if the new teachers will not get an opportunity to teach, how will they get experience. The unions are run by full time teachers' and they make rules favouring themselves and not the new supply teachers.
It is upto the Governement to discourage this practice as the school boards badly need this money which is wasted on re-hiring retired teachers. In some cases the retired teachers are paid over $90000 annual salary for a 90 day Long term position which could be easily filed with a more enegetic, young teacher for as little as $ 38000; For a 90 day assignment, this could result in a saving of $13000 per new teacher instead of a re-hired retired teacher.
Posted by: Annette Mockler | Jun 10, 2021 12:27:06 AM
Is this not a free country? What is the difference between a retired teacher doing supply teaching or working in another field of expertise altogether different? I don't see the correctness of the point being expressed here. If they would be working in another field after retiring, which nothing could stop them, what the heck? Again, we are living in the "supposedly free country" - for now anyway! How much control over people do these people want, those who are making these absurd remarks? Give me a break!!!!
Posted by: A Young Teacher | Jun 10, 2021 1:44:01 AM
As a young teacher, I experienced the frustration of retired teachers going back to the classroom first hand. While I cannot blame them because there are huge financial incentives (work 50% of the school year to earn, in many cases, as much as you did as full time teacher), it makes it very difficult for new teachers to get a shot to prove themselves. I spent 5 years attempting to get a full time contract and finally became disillusioned by the system. While I have stayed in the system (teaching overseas), I am sure many leave due to their inability to support themselves. What I say is shame on the administrators for not giving new teachers a shot. They are the ones choosing who to hire. I understand that retired teachers have a lot to offer but this is short-term mentality as the new teachers will offer their energy for many years to come.
Posted by: Don Vogt | Jun 10, 2021 4:17:40 AM
This issue can be viewed from another angle. As a recently retired teacher, now having returned to work in the private system at slightly less than half-time, I did open a full time position for a younger teacher when I left my career job. My wife concurrently retired from a full time job, thereby opening a full time position. Perhaps the "job blocking" spotlight should shift over to people, not only teachers, who are hanging on to their careers past the time where they are eligible to retire but choose to continue working full time. Or perhaps this spotlight should be dimmed and everyone's right to work for a reasonable living should be accepted. I am grateful for my excellent pension, however it should not be overlooked that its benefits are a significant pay cut from my career job nor should it be overlooked that I was required to make large payments into the plan for the entire span of my career, a fact which resulted in a net salary that was shockingly less than the gross salary for the duration of the career.
Posted by: Bob | Jun 10, 2021 5:06:51 AM
Teachers \ Administrators \ Specialests \ no matter what your job title may have been, when we double dip we all indeed create problems for those new employees intigrating into the workforce. Not to mention the extra burden often placed on the families of these furture contributors. Many students today put in 5 or more years of Colege \ University and enter the workforce with a debt load that mirrors some of our mortages 20 or so years back. Not a great way to start anyone's working life. But unfortunately that happens more often then not today. If we double dip and it takes these new employees 5 or more years to obtain a full paying job and are even further in debt. So what happens more people chose to have fewer children, more immigration, fewer supporting our tax system, a greater number on social systems, and eventually we all loose including those who double dip. Why ? give your head a shake at some point our system will no longer be able to sustain itself and those who worked more dilligently to provide for their retirement will be in a bracket where. Believe it or not will be either taxed even higher or have to fund a greater portion of their healthcare when they need it most. Go ahead .. double dip .. but be prepaired to loose much of what you worked for all your life.
Posted by: Steve | Jun 10, 2021 5:44:58 AM
Many teachers talk about how much they have 'paid into the plan' (including my sister). Fact of the matter is this, it is the public who has paid into the plan. Teachers have been over paid and under worked for generations. I agree that an educator should make a living wage and enough to compensate for their education. But as a parent who has to pay for their lavish pensions and their extensive holidays (What other job outside of Parliament has so many days off??) who pays for my childrens' daycare when the teachers are off on their 'professional development' days? My previous employer went bust along with the promised pension, my parents friends have lost their pensions because their previous employers went bust. Has that sort of thing EVER affected a teachers pension? Allow retired teachers to teach, let them teach during the Summer holidays, the Christmas holidays, the Easter holidays, The PD days, the March break, the........
Posted by: Catherine | Jun 10, 2021 6:24:02 AM
I can tell you that most of these retiring teachers would not have retired were it not for the opportunity to work occasionally--they simply could not afford to do so otherwise. The pension is not as lucrative as the media would have one believe. Unfortunately, we have now created a situation where potential retiring teachers will seriously reconsider retiring and NOT create a vacancy for a new teacher at all! I am so surprised that that the general public simply do not get this basic fact. Secondly, most other occupations are permitted to continue working beyond retirement--why do we discriminate against only teachers? I think the day has come when a collective group of teachers ought to challenge the courts about this blatant form of discrimination.
Posted by: Cher | Jun 10, 2021 7:02:26 AM
It's impossible in Canada for a government worker including military personnel to double-dip retirement. Hell, CPP is deducted from our pensions before any monies are received. To make matters worse, if both husband and wife were lucky enough to work for the government, both their pensions are adjusted to balance the income between both. I have never understood how government pensioners can have so much of their pension adjusted by the government after retirement. It's as if we are being punished for having a pension for our retirement. No one else cares because we are just over-paid government employees.
Posted by: ken hewitt | Jun 10, 2021 7:40:52 AM
this is also happening in the nuclear industry,some can barely walk,lots of young people will have a much lesser quality of life because of the old greedy people. This is wrong!!! It's either greed or they screwed up in they're money management,sometime's it looks like a geriatric ward here,and I'm not trying to be funny
Posted by: Chris | Jun 10, 2021 8:08:14 AM
Which province do you refer to - Ontario? In Quebec depending on which plan you were paying into and the year you started, a retired teacher in the old plan can double dip. Those who opted for the new plan (1980s) are only allowed to work up to $10,000 a year. But of course, in this province the teachers have always been underpayed though working many long hours especially with this governements reform - it practically works out just a little above min. wage. What about our over paid government officials and other employees? Teachers who chose this as their career and dedicated their lives giving 35 years of service, should be commended as they have paved the way for all our future politicians, lawyers, doctors etc .
Posted by: Smokestack | Jun 10, 2021 8:15:43 AM
Teachers fund their own pensions. They also contribute to the Canada Pension. They're entitled to both. If 'teachers' don't mind the practice of retirees working and getting both paid and pensioned then who are we the general public to care! At least THEY contribute! We should be more concerned with the thousands upon thousands of 'fake nail joints' that pop up on every corner, operated 99.9% of the time by immigrants where you rarely find a 'real' cash register, with most of them having a 'cash' box. They don't take debit, no credit cards and rarely give receipts....why..? because they don't report incomes and those that do report an income do so with fudged books and financials to minimize taxable contributions. With what they take out in non taxed dollars funds their own pensions and they live very good lives contributing nothing to our tax system. Teachers on the other hand do contribute, leave them alone! Go after those that don't!
Posted by: Lisa | Jun 10, 2021 9:07:05 AM
Noone should be allowed to "double dip" in any career. Period.
However, when it comes to my child's education, my main concern is that they are getting properly educated with someone who can actually HANDLE children. (The issue of discipline--or lack thereof.)(The "waiting" substitute teachers, young AND old, should be put on a list, and when your turn comes, you get to teach. However, that is unions for you...and I don't like unions in the least.)
The bottom line is, our education system needs alot of help. (I don't believe they are teaching discipline at teachers' colleges because I have asked around. If any public school teacher wants to dispute that, let me know.) I also don't like the government having THEIR hand in the sytem because the salaries have to be "out of this world." How have I figured this out? Well, I have to pay for all the school supplies for my kids, but if you go into the teachers' parking lot, you should see the cars, SUV's, convertibles they drives! So, while MY family struggles to get by (and many like me), THEY are living the high life. Why are my tax dollars going to line a teacher's wallet and NOT for suppplies for my children, for the classroom? In my opinion, my tax dollars are NOT getting spent properly on the school system, no matter which way I slice it.
And yes, for anyone who wants to rail me...I realize I got off topic. However, the issue of teachers and salaries and unions really steams me...while our children are always the ones caught in the middle.
Posted by: anything but Sue | Jun 10, 2021 9:09:24 AM
Teachers and all govt workers are paid through tax dollars therefore they are only returning some money when they pay into the tax system. Since it is dollars that originate from the tax system that teachers are donating towards their pension then canadian tax dollars should support every canadian tax payer with the same level of pension. I believe there should be rules against double dipping for govt pay cheques.I know of several govt workers that are now collecting two full govt pensions. Ex: police to full retirement and then DOT to full retirement. In that example the second career was definitly taking an opportunity away from a younger person. The reason that the rcmp got the second career was due to his knowledge of govt systems not his knowledge of the transport system. There is no way that govt pay cheques, benefits and pensions should be higher than the base workers like farmers and sawmill workers. Govt workers are spoiled and they should not get two chances at the gravy boat. It is time to equal out pension plans for all people.
Posted by: John Gaul | Jun 10, 2021 9:16:36 AM
I am a retired Secondary School teacher who retired after 31 years of teaching in Ontario. Shortly after retirement I applied for supply teaching on the mistaken notion that I would need to supplement my pension. I found that was not the case. My pension plus CCP met my lifestyle needs.
I think that the old rules of 95 days a year for the first three years should be reduced to two years. After that 20 days a year should be allowed. What should also change is the monitoring of all supply teaching days for retired teachers. This is not being done now and is the reason why there is such a large amount of double dipping. There are rules against exceeding the limits but without accurate record keeping sanctions cannot be applied.
There are teachers who do need some extra income and should be allowed to do some teaching. Most of us however can live on our pensions plus CCP. We owe it to the new teachers not to take away income and job experience from them as they struggle to obtain full time work as a teacher. I fully support restrictions on supply teaching after retirement. I would like to see the whole issue of double dipping explored in depth to determine the degree of negative impact on young workers caused by this practice in all employment groups.
Working after retirement based on need is necessary but working based on greed is unacceptable.
Posted by: Lucie | Jun 10, 2021 9:29:27 AM
There are so many young and educated people that are having a hard time finding full time jobs. These 'double dippers' are taking away from the young person's opportunities. When young people can't find steady work, they can't start a family, buy a house, buy a car and get their lives going.
Any gov't retired employee has a 'gold' pension compared to the rest of us. For them to reap the benefits twice, at the expense of young people trying to make a living is not right.
I see it in other industries as well. Retirees with full pensions starting 2nd careers and taking away fro those that need the income to survive. I am in a sales industry where there are many retired teachers, military personnel that come in and work part-time. This just takes away from the rest of us and I'm firmly against it.
Posted by: Robert Langdon | Jun 10, 2021 9:38:37 AM
I retired early so a younger person could hold onto their job taking a forty per cent pay cut. I now work part time and try to limit my hours to a semi retired job, however, there is always a shortage due to sick calls or young people not wanting to work week ends.I sometimes end up working full time hours in a two week period. I'am not a teacher but it requires some effort to qualify for my job, about two years college or three for a special course.If young people would take the effort we would have lots of staff and I could work less.I do need to work some or my life style would drop drastically, government pension.I also pay into U.I.C., never collected a penny in forty years, C.P.P. still ands lots of income tax, municipal tax, gas tax, liquor tax, Gst, Pst, now H.S.T., dnate to charity and give gifts to my grand kids.
I guess I should have quit working years ago and went on welfare like a lot of people around here.Everyone could be happier then
I know for a fact there is a large underground economy with both immigrants and ordinary Canadians just to survive the tax burden.
Posted by: Chris | Jun 10, 2021 10:32:06 AM
This would be a moot point if all pensions were equal. As a "retired" member of the military (after 30 years) my pension does not pay my modest mortgage, property taxes and cost of groceries. I must find other work, as a consultant or otherwise, to feed and house my family. There are many myths about government pensions, but you need a high level of income to get a good pension. The vast majority of military members know they will have to find another job when they "retire" - but they did not join the military for the money or benefits! I compete for work the same as younger people and I have to prove myself everyday. I will not just step out of the way because it is too much effort for them to find a job. Contributing to a pension entitles you to benefits as defined by the pension plan - there is no such thing as double dipping!
Posted by: Steve | Jun 10, 2021 10:34:01 AM
I signed a contract with the military to work for 20 years at which time I could retire with a pension. I have completed more that 26 years of service and after 5 overseas deployments and countless days away from my family it is time to move on. I am now ready to retire.
That being said, I have acquired certain skillsets which employers find valuable and useful. Why should I not offer those abilities to an employer (gov't or private sector) and be paid for them? Is it any different the Steve Yzerman working for a hockey team after his playing career is over?
Why should I be denied employment after retirement just because I have a pension? I'm 46 years old and can contribute to society for many years to come. I don't feel guilty at all nor should I.
Posted by: Brian Boydell | Jun 10, 2021 10:55:15 AM
Retired Teachers should be limited in their supply work and the school boards definitely need to monitor this better. My wife graduated teachers college 4 years ago and has been supplying ever since. She has applied every year for long term work but has only received one interview. This is really hard to accept especially this year when she was talking with a retired teacher who was called personally by a principal and asked to come back and take on 6 month maternity leave. Why is this happening? If you wanted to retire and get out of the classroom on a daily basis why take this job? Why wasn't this job posted for all teachers to apply for and why not go through the correct hiring procedure. The whole retiree system is a joke!