How crazy of an idea is the fat tax?

I'm obese, so is my wife. She has diabetes because of it. There is a problem and we all need to work together to fix it. I'd like to see the reward model. For instance tax credits for healthy activities(like for the kids). Maybe there could be a subsidy for financially qualified people who cannot afford those activities. Why aren't our local hospitals and health care centers doing more in the communities to combat obesity. They could operate fitness centers and provide nutritional counseling. This as prevention to your diabetes and heart disease. Get those at risk kids in low income and rural communites moving. Lower the cost of skating and introduce less competitve more recreational athletics. Reward good habits. Doctors in the UK get bonuses for improving the health of patients. Why don't we do that? Reward the patients as well. You get healthier, we sponsor some vacation time. Or, you stay heatly and we do something financially for them. Also, I was a smoker. My wife still is. I'm not holier than thou. It's true that smoking keeps you in this cycle of impaired health. You need to get active. But, you don't have the "wind" to because you're an obese, aging, smoker. Pound those tobacco companies. Force them to find alternate uses for thier product other than human consumption. Reward is the key. If you don't want to paricipate, don't. Make the reward worth wihile. Remember this is a disorder. So, for some degree there is some dysfunction. Arguing that there's nothing wrong with over eaters is a waste of time. They feel bad for being the way they are. So, help them feel good. Reward - Hey, it worked for Pavlov.

Here's what this really boils down to: idiocy.

Consider this a rant and rebuttle, both against the "fat tax", and the last few years of stupidity we in the world have suffered.

First off, I must say that I do like the principle behind this idea. It forces people to stop being lazy and start thinking before making a purchase. Then again, if we did that, we wouldn't have the economic collapse we had, we wouldn't have the "green product" debacle that started as soon as the products hit shelves, and the Darwin Awards would never have been handed out.

The big problem that I see with supporting ideas like this is simple: people stop being accountable to themselves. Oh wait, we're already here! Gods bless progress in humanity! Beautiful ideas like "political correctness". And I'm not saying we shouldn't be ending sexism and racism, as an example. No, instead we just let the pendulum swing back the other way. Now if you look at a person the wrong way, and you're caucasian? God damnit, you must be a racist! A woman can make thousands of comments about men being pigs, slobs, chauvinists, and gods know we apparently can't pee properly. But if you happen to be looking at a woman because she's attractive to you? Holy hell, run, you're a rapist, a chauvinist, and you definitely sexually assaulted this person.

And if you're a liberal in Canada right now? May whatever deity you worship have divine mercy upon your soul, because you are the scum of the earth according to our -glorious- Prime Minister. This is a man who claims, and I quote from the Conservative Party membership drive campaign (via telemarketing techniques) "Single-handedly avoided a fall election based upon his ability to negotiate a budgetary deal with the Liberal Party and Michael Ignatiaff". Now, this was what I heard approximately July 13th, 2009. A bare week later, the Tories are running attack ads against Ignatieff. Now about a month later, he claims he avoided a fall election because of said attack ads. And the recent bout of amnesia? Well, that little coalition he was so against? He made one with the NDP it seems. A little, how did he put it? "Help from my friends"?

So the world turns, and the general populace gets stupider. Should we continue to support idiocy? Will it even matter? Most of us Canadians are in the following situation: we eat, we sleep, we work. We have little spending money for extras, and we have little desire to follow the idiocy that runs rampant in parliament hill - and yes, it's lower case because the place has lost our respect. We stop following the debates, the bills, the laws, we stop even caring about any of it. And so while we may not being paying a "fat tax" right now, we pay for private drivers, dry cleaning bills, baby sitters, two houses, a pension to a thirty one year old conservative MP who has never worked a job in his life before it seems, and for a myriad of other wastes of our every single tax pennies - not just dollars - over two governments (I'm not debating the liberals because their damage was done, now the tories have the ball, time for them to man up), one as bad as the other.

So perhaps what we don't need is another tax. Perhaps what we really need is a stupid tax. Abolish taxes for all levels of government, all services, everything. Instead, everytime any of us does something stupid, we pay $100. Doesn't matter how stupid it is, doesn't matter if it affected anyone besides ourselves, or even if it was just a stupid thought. We pay. No refunds, no deductions, no charity donations to get the money back. Why? Because if you were stupid, you were stupid, nothing can change that.

I can promise you the following things will happen: All political parties will be bankrupt, leaving the people to resume running their country, not the jerkoffs wanting cash. And when the people become the jerkoffs, the parties change, and the cycle continues. Eventually things will actually change. Secondly? We won't all be here writing (and reading) articles and comments like this. I already wrote my cheque to send out to the revenue services, because I know someone, somewhere, is going to call all this stupid. So fair's fair right? Thirdly, we as a people are going to start taking notice of the world around us a lot more. No more of these goddamn Ponzi schemes and thieving politicians and corrupt officials and companies. We're all gonna be too broke to worry about trying to screw over one another, and when we do have money, we're going to try and be a lot smarter about our lives and what we do with them. Consider it a form of pessimistic optimism: I hope we'll figure out how to be a smarter race (humans as a whole), but I won't be stupid enough to hold my breath.

So in the end, where does this leave us?

$100 richer and 20lbs fatter by my count, and we're not getting any smarter.

TO GO FOR IT What ever happened to decency and helping out others, it seems that eveyone feels it's okay to slam, ridicule and discriminate against people who are fat. As for the proposed "fat" tax you want to impose. Then I think you better hope that you or someone you care about never falls into " a category" that someone else would like to"tax". You know if you aren't the right color, or the right sex, the right IQ, live in the right province, lets tax you.
All I can say is thank goodness I live in Canada and that Tommy Douglas fought for a health care system that at least try's to take care of everyone, based on the fact that every Canadian has value. Fat, Skinny, what ever skin color, what ever religion. No biases.
Next my friend you will be trying to "tax" premature babies and the elderly becasue they are draining our health care dollars...and are visible.

While I agree high taxes may be a deterrant for some, it won't be for all. You taxed cigarettes higher, ppl grumble about it but smokers still pay the bill. I think more proper education towards healthy eating would be a better bet than heavily taxing. I have a real difficult time understanding how to eat healthy and balanced meals because a lot of info contradicts itself AND it seems there is a lot of number crunching to do to eat the proper number of calories while getting all your daily nutrients and vitamins. I pick up an apple to eat instead of a chocolate bar then I'm reading NO fruit is bad because it contains so much sugar...yet I'm told to eat more fruits and vegetables. I eat a half a bagel with peanut butter on it for breakfast...there's too many carbs and too high of fat in peanut butter. I have a bowl of oatmeal...the milk is too fatty (yet another camp says the key to losing weight is having dairy in your diet).
I also HATE the fact that obese ppl are supposed to be a drain on the healthcare system. I'm what's considered morbidly obese and the worst health problem I've had is a slightly elevated blood pressure while pregnant. It wasn't considered high, just a little higher than normal (and since I was pregnant this was a normal symptom). I rarely go to the doctor and am rarely ill. Last time I was sick at all was with a cold way back in the fall of 2007. I would hardly call me a drain on the healthcare system.
I'm not saying the "fat tax" is a bad thing, I think the reasons behind it need to be more thought out. I do think, however, that in corrolation with with the "fat tax" the price of healthier options should go down. While I don't think healthier food is more expensive (I've figured that out since eliminating a lot of junk from the grocery shopping...a little goes a lot longer than junk) there are items out there that are getting ridiculous. A loaf of bread should not cost $2.50 (this is in Saskatchewan) and I should not have to deal jump to find a decent priced loaf of bread. Also the price of the skinless, boneless chicken breasts should not run you a small fortune either. It's hard to justify spending 30 some bucks on that (or even 15 on a whole chicken) when I can buy a huge pack of ground beef that'll last the same length as the chicken breasts for 15 bucks.

A fat tax? Seriously? You might as well tax everyone whose actions affect the cost of healthcare. What about the person going slow on a major highway? They're a safety hazard and cause plenty of accidents. How about the smoker, the pothead, the guy with heart problems or who won't take a yoga class or counselling to help him deal with stress? Hate to tell you this everyone but the fat people already pay taxes. Shocking but true.
Here's a thought...how about we not complain about what everyone else does and just focus on our own choices?

Were doomed...we are all going to hell. Fast! These guy's will never quit. A Saudi company was recently denied a patent on a human microchip with a built in cyanide packet that could triggered from a satalite.
If we do not speak up with LOUD voices (enmass) it will soon be too late.

Hold me. I'm scared.

What bothers me the most about this is that the our braindead Canadian government are wasting hard earned TAX DOLLARS to come up with the stupidest of ideas without even thinking the consequences of long term effects. They are talking about FAT TAX....Gee...lets make it harder for those who already cant afford the healthier foods and make them starve to death. If you want to TAX the poorly nutritioned people who cant afford to eat healthy and cant afford the Gym Memberships at an average of$1000 a year.....why dont we tax the health junkies for...... lets say......excessive wear and tear on gym equipment, Evrytime the gym stuff breaks and is thrown out....it does end up in land fills. NO?
So lets set a WearOute TAX on training equipment to deter the people from buying new stuff instead of fixing the old ones.
God..... and to think I still call myself a proud Canadian when I know Im represented by government people that dont have an IQ level higher than my dogs crap under my work boot.

God Bless our Governement......LMAO

Mike, your obtuseness is showing. Here's the direct quote from the Medline site: "MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's premier bibliographic database covering the fields of medicine, nursing, dentistry, veterinary medicine, the health care system, and the preclinical sciences." I have referenced numerous studies concerning obesity and hormonal conditions related to obesity via Medline and Medscape. I also have links to information available at reputable sites such as the University of Chicago Medical Centre.

I have not read the study you identified; however, I have grave doubts concerning the reliability of that 3% figure. One endocrine disorder alone, known best by the name "polycystic ovary syndrome" or PCOS, accounts for a high number of obese women. Experts in the fields of gynaecology and endocrinology state that approximately 10% of the women of childbearing age have this syndrome, and that approximately 50% of these women are obese. Assuming that women comprise approximately 50% of the population, this then would equate to 2.5% of the population having this syndrome and being obese. This is only ONE of the many medical conditions linked to obesity, so I think I'd be safe in saying that that 3% figure is absurdly low.

An increasing amount of research is taking place with regard to insulin and insulin resistance, and the effect on obesity. An example is the study "Decreasing hypothalamic insulin receptors causes hyperphagia and insulin resistance in rats". These scientists injected a group of rats with a substance that essentially "knocked out" the insulin receptors in the hypothalamus in the brain. These treated rats became hyperphagic (hyperphagia = uncontrolled eating), became obese, and were far more resistant to the effects of insulin than the control group of rats. Hmmm...do you think that similar effects might take place in humans????

This is not to say that it is impossible for obese people to lose weight - that notion is just as silly as the one that regards obese people as lazy slobs with no willpower - it just means that losing that weight is not as simple a process as many people (even some doctors) presume. It is very much like the trouble people have with quitting smoking. I quit smoking in January after having smoked for almost 30 years, but I NEEDED the help of medication to do so (in my case, Champix). Other people who quit don't have any problem doing so. One thing I can say with authority - the "sin tax" on cigarettes had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on my decision to quit.

Obesity is caused by many things, some of which are in the process of being discovered now. The more we know about it, the more options are available to help people. A "fat tax" contributes diddly-squat to this process...it would just constitute a money grab for politicians to use to reward their best friends and supporters.

Yeah, totally! And while we're at it, let's implement the 'skinny tax' for those damned people who cost our health care system loads of money to treat their anorexia, bulimia, and bdd! Because, let's face it, in a world where it's so easy to get your hands on a delicious and fatty burger from the value menu, how could they be so lazy and selfish NOT to eat more? Instead of persecuting "fat people" with a "fat tax", who are continually reminded every day of their supposed burden on society, why don't we instead look at changing the society that fuels unhealthy lifestyles, on both ends of the continuum. Whether these lifestyles be ones that promote convenience over making healthy choices, or extremities over moderation, we can't alienate specific people that we feel represent the threat of our society not being as great as we would like to think it is.

So you want to cut health care costs. As long as the saved money doesn't just go into the pockets of our useless over paid politicians, I'm all for it. How about this as a system of promoting healthy living. Everyone get 1 visit/use per month for the first 4 years of life (a visit lasts from the time you enter until you leave so if you are born with a medical condition that requires you to stay in hospital for an extended length of time that is only one visit). Next from age 5 to 10 we are covered for 1 visit every 2 months. Then from ages 10 to 40 we are allowed 2 visits per year. From 40 to 55 we are given 3 per year. Then from 55 on we are allowed 4 visits per year. But the deal is that we should be able to bank unused visits such that if we stay healthy from 10 to 55 and hardly ever use our visits we will pretty well be covered for free for the rest of our life. On the other hand if you use more than your alotted visits then a fee should be charged for each over use. One exception would be that no visits are charged during pregnancies as we want healthy mothers and babies.

The fat tax assumes that fat people always eat junk food... and that's a very uneducated point of view... it may help prevent younger people falling into a spiral to obesity but it won't make a damn bit of difference to the millions of fat or obese adults... also the point made about people suffering from genetic/health reasons for their obesity is also flawed... My partner is a genetics researcher and there are more and more links between genetics and problems such as obesity being discovered everyday, just as there are for cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's etc.. and while I don't for a second want to try and put obesity into the same categories as those diseases, I do believe the causes of obesity in more than a minority of people go beyond the food they eat

Ok. lets take out all the flaky arguments and focus on the facts, and foreseeable implications of this tax. Forget the arguments of "I've read med forums trust me I know" and "ya i do such and such". If you make a point from a medical journal, cite the journal and make your statement, otherwise it's just blowing smoke. 2nd If you make an argument, be concise and effective, no rants.
Now, how do we regulate a tax on such an arbitrary topic? Its easy to regulate taxation on liquor and cigarretts. If it has tobacco in it, its a tobacco product-taxation. It if has alcohol in it, its a liquor product-taxation. But fat tax? What are the guidelines. what is truly unhealthy food. You would need millions of dollars in research, legislation and red tape to classify which foods are taxed. What proportion of fat in a product meats taxation standars? what density of calories per servings meets taxation standards? Where is the line drawn when eating in a restaruant? If you order the pasta with lentils that sounds healthy, but If you get it with alfredo sauce, does that mean it's taxed? Assuming all political, social and medical groups are on board for such a tax, the regulation issues and taxation amounts on differing food products would be too overwhelming and too costly to comprehend. Also with regards to medical and life insurance? Are those that eat foods with a higher fat tax, subject to higher premiums? Do medical insurance companies have the right to look into your monthly grocery purchases?

I the conclusion of this post is this: regardless of how good an idea is or who is on which side, you need to consider whether it is realistic or plausible. This fat tax is neither. So there's no point getting too ruffled up about the topic. Here's an analogy: would you debate on whether people should be allowed to change the past if they travel back in time? No you wouldn't because it's not even a realistic idea at this point. Neither is this topic. To the authors, if you can create a model on how a fat tax would operate, I think all the arguments presented on this board would have a purpose. Until then I'm afraid we are all just running in circles.

I think it makes more sense to make healthy choices cheaper, rather than unhealthy ones more expensive. We have enough taxes. How about subsidizing gym memeberships or fitness classes? What about providing health seminars or teaching our youth more about healthy eating? Or subsidizing healthy food options?

I don't think adding a new tax on any kind of food to make up for the fact that our universal health care system has been set up in a way that makes those that use the system for preventable problems financially un-accountable for their poor judgement.

If we want to follow this tax idea through we would need to tax all the lifestyle choices people are making, the diet they are eating, and tax them based on those. I don't like the idea of an auditor going into my home to check if my home made BBQ meets gov't standards.

Besides, such a new tax would likely cause other adverse effects, like causing less people in general to eat out, decrease the consumer base and lead to the loss of more peoples jobs. Of course we would be able to hire some home meal inspectors and beer sales might go up, as you want to be nice to the meal inspector right?

Hey government: how about working FOR us for a change? If you were really so worried about puiblic health you would subsidize healthy food! Make milk cheaper than Pepsi. How is it that in my province a litre of milk costs triple in northern communities what it does in the capital but they keep booze is the same price province wide? This is a very thinly veiled tax grab thats all. No one cares about public health.

Would personal responsibility please come back into vogue! We blame the bars for drunk drivers. We blame the school for decreasing competence levels in graduates. We blame television for violence. We blame our parents for our unhappiness. Apparently as a society we have lost the ability to be accountable to ourselves and others. What the heckl, let's invite the government into the kitchen. Next they'll be marching into the bedroom.

Tax, Tax, Tax that's all goverment does look for new ways to get more money out of my pocket. They have taxed booze to death, smokes (if you are hooked on this one sorry you are screwed) a deterant hah!
The goverment's make more money now then ever. Wait till they tax the Sun because it will eventually provide us with are energy needs one day.
The laugh of the day would be that we would have to save up are money to have sex!!!! But hey leave it to a Politician to figure out a way of getting that to.

Yeah, we need another tax like we need a hole in the head! When are we going to put Politics aside, and get down to the business of fixing this system of ours?

Tax the hell out of fast food. It's not good for anybody, let alone the obese. If it's okay to tax the hell out of a smoker's vice, then the same should go for the vices of fat people. Obese people are a larger proportion of the population than smokers and cost the health care tons more. At least when a smoker gets cancer, they're generally dead in a couple of years unlike fat people who live considerably longer draining the health care system resources.

A fat tax might be useful if they used it to lower the price on healthy foods which do cost more. Take for instance bread...white can be bought for about 1.50 where whole grain will run you about 3 -3.50. Look at the price of milk compared to pop...3.49 vs 1.79 Leaner cuts of meat are always much more expensive . But it's not just the cost of healthy foods that keeps people from eating them. It's the time it takes to make a meal from scratch rather then pour it out of a package.It's cheaper and healthier to make your own cookies, muffins, sauces etc and throw them in the freezer but who has the time? Not too many people will make that time. And no matter what the box says, if it's processed it's not healthy. I think we need education on how to eat. I'd love to see processed food off the shelves of grocery stores. It's unhealthy and misleading i.e blue menu labels. And yes, obesity is hard on our health care system! But so is high blood pressure and diabetes which are not only affecting obese people. When I first starting working in the health care field I couldn't believe the amount of poeple with diabetes. It's alarming. And it's largely preventable through diet and exercise!