Facebook photos get depressed woman's benefits cut
When it comes to employee benefits, people generally splinter into two radical groupings.
The first thinks the big, bad corporations should pay us minions whatever we want; the idea here being, whatever help we need is just a fraction of your overall, lucrative profits.
The second rationalizes we’re all a bunch of cry-babies and should have to earn what we keep; too long have the weak been protected by bull-headed unions and payouts unfair to their employers.
So with that in mind, when a story like this comes out, you can see how each side is likely to come out swinging.
The CBC has reported a Quebec woman had her sick-leave benefits cut by her insurer because of photos she posted on Facebook.
Nathalie Blanchard, 29, had been receiving a monthly paycheque from provider Manulife while on a one-and-a-half year depression leave from her job at IBM.
When suddenly her payouts stopped coming, she called Manulife.
The insurer told Blanchard that – based on posted photos showing her partying at a Chippendales bar and relaxing on a sunny beach – she was fit to work and no longer eligible for benefits.
“In the moment, I’m happy,” Blanchard admitted of the photos to CBC. “But before and after I have the same problems.”
Now, this is the point where people in group no. 2 are screaming at their computers, calling Blanchard every kind of lazy-expletive name they can think of.
But are things that black and white?
For starters, Blanchard said she informed Manulife of her trip, and said she’s “shocked” they would interpret her photos as a sign she is no longer depressed.
Next, who is Manulife to be the final ruler on this one?
“It’s not as if somebody had a broken back and there was a picture of them carrying with a load of bricks,” Blanchard’s lawyer said. “My client was diagnosed with a major depression. And there were pictures of her on Facebook, in a party or having a good time. It could be that she was just trying to escape.
“I don’t think for judging a mental state that Facebook is a very good tool,” he added.
Indeed, the isolated pictures on Facebook don’t quite give Blanchard an indisputable clean bill of health, but in Manulife’s defence, they claim their investigation was thorough.
“We would not deny or terminate a valid claim solely based on information published on websites such as Facebook,” the company said in a statement.
So, whose side do you take here?
It’s apparent both Blanchard and Manulife have a case, but was the insurer right to play the role of God and jump to cut the woman’s benefits? As a larger issue, is it proper for companies to consider their employees’ online profiles for such a decision?
Or, to keep asking long-winded rhetorical questions, is what is put on Facebook simply a public matter, once and for all?
By Jason Buckland, MSN Money
Posted by: susie9 | Nov 23, 2021 2:14:49 PM
manulife is souless. I had to fight to get benefits in the first place so I went without money for almost a month and nearly lost my home. stupid manulife said I needed to budget—with what?!
when they finally approved me, knowing my dr was away and wouldn't send them anything until he'd seen me 4 months later, and they had to contact him directly for more info if they wanted that from him, they immediately began harassing ME every month for more info from him threatening to cut me off every month if they didn't get it. then when the application for CPP disability (mandatory for manulife) was held up by my dr.'s absense and it took them longer to make a decision because they decided to contact all my specialists, they sent me more threatening letters with the tone "surely [I'd] heard back from CPP with a decision by now" as if I was receiving CPP on the sly though I'd signed an info-sharing form and sent it back to manulife so they would be notified at the same time I was. CPP had not made a decision and when I called them about what manulife was doing, they said manulife and sunlife send these harassing letters to all LTD clients when CPP takes longer to decide. the only thing that stopped all the harassment (so far) is CPP finally making a decision, thankfully, in my favour.
I use my facebook profile to keep in touch with my family and see pictures of my grandchildren. my only friends are my 3 children—I don't need or want 40,000 friends!
the only pictures of me are ones taken without my knowledge at my daughter's wedding 2 wks before I left work. they have no right to use those against me. was I supposed to NOT go to my daughter's wedding because I was having a stress breakdown? unfortunately, some of what happened there hastened it. I don't even look even look happy in the pictures because my dr had me drugged almost to the point of not feeling anything and I was emaciated because the meds destroyed my appetite for years.
if manulife could override my privacy settings, which are at the highest setting, they would need facebook's cooperation, and if that's the case, facebook should be shut down for gross violation of the Privacy Act.
Only drs' statements are proof of a patient's health or lack of it. insurance companies are not gods and do not have the right to make arbitrary decisions based on photographs. if i ever catch anyone following me, they'll have to explain their actions to the police. paying rent and bills I can't online, going to dr.'s appointments, buying groceries, and other daily activities are not insurance fraud! I do not have to be a shut-in laying in bed all day to prove I'm sick—no one does! if I did that, I wouldn't be sick, I'd be dead, because no one is going to take care of those things for me. manulife does not provide a caregiver!
and I hope every judgmental person who has posted here gets to experience what I have so you will eat your words. you know nothing about this!
Posted by: michael swami | Nov 23, 2021 2:43:19 PM
i think she should work for cantest/maxxam they will love that one what about her doctor
Posted by: Grouchy | Nov 23, 2021 2:59:34 PM
Sorry, but I side with the employer. I have had people in my life diagnosed with depression and believe me when you are in the state they were in , the last place you would be going is on vacation. True mental depression makes you unfit ( at least in your eyes ) to be seen in public, you are to unsure of yourself to go out. All you want to do is stay hidden in your home. if you are well enough to take a vacation and go to chippendales then you are definitely not depressed !
Posted by: Dwight | Nov 23, 2021 3:31:12 PM
This is a 100% invasion of privacy plain and simple. This Manulife joker had NO business accessing this woman's Facebook or anything other social site. And IF doctor's have determined her mental state as unfit, who the hell is Manulife to toss in a "ringer". This is clearly an abuse of (insurance companies) power!. Fitting how just weeks ago I read an article about how insurance companies make someone jump through hoops and send people to several doctor's in hopes that the insurance company finally gets the answer they want - a doctor who agrees with THEM. Funny how all these insurance companies are only to willing to take your premiums but claim poverty when the time comes to pay-out.. Go get'em girl..
Posted by: J.G. | Nov 23, 2021 4:02:48 PM
I was on leave for a depression in which I was suicidal, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, and spent all day lying on the couch crying. My doctor suggested that I take a trip to get away from my responsibilities (I was a single mom with four young children and their father lived far away and was not involved in their care) so I found someone to look after the kids and went on a holiday with my brother. The whole point of the holiday was to try to feel better so I forced myself to have a good time- I was hit by a wave the second day of the vacation which dislocated my shoulder which was kind of ironic. But I am sure anyway seeing me with my brother would never have suspected the depression I was going through. Do we want people with depression to sit home crying on a couch or should they be allowed and encouraged to get out and do things that bring enjoyment so that perhaps they can return to the workforce stronger both mentally and physically??
Posted by: knowsbetter | Nov 23, 2021 4:15:10 PM
I always find it funny how people answer from reading an article and assume they know enough to have an educated opinion. I bet alot of them think they know which celebrity should be dating who as well, and I'm sure they could tell you why. Disability is a big problem and not nearly as simple as getting a doctors note as someone who was on for several years and then given permanent disability pension I know that a 30 page form is much much more than a simple note and believe me the insurance companies check your history like you wouldnt believe. They want to know every doctor you have seen for 5 years. I know its not that easy. I also know how many people milk the system which makes it harder for anyone who is legitiately disabled to claim and I'm also sure that when they are investigating someone it wont be because of facebook!
Posted by: Tim Landry | Nov 23, 2021 4:30:00 PM
Let me preface my remarks by stating that I have been in the marketing/training/sales side of Disability Insurance in Canada for about 40 years. This is an interesting case. Depression IS a major cause of Long Term Disability today - along with other "mental health" issues like stress. The problem is that - while many of these claims are totally legitimate, it is also the claim most open to abuse. Basically - stress related claims bankrupted two major US carriers - Paul Revere and Provident - and have severely harmed UNUM.Canada's experience is not as bad - but it is DEFINITELY there. On the one hand, I cannot argue that a vacation can be a great treatment for stress and depression - and no one should be disqualified from benefits ONLY because they are photographed on holiday. I also know Manu very well - like any company their Group products are less generous than their individual ones BUT I find it at least difficult to believe that they would take a client off claim SOLELY because of pictures on Facebook
Posted by: Paula | Nov 23, 2021 4:36:27 PM
I am selfemployed (Childcare), had Breastcancer 4 years ago...double mastectomy, which was one on Tuesday Sept. 6th, discharged from the Hospital Sept. 7th, back to the city where we live, Sept.8th, started working Sept. 9th (10 hr. days).
No plan for me. I lived, did not want to do it again.
This year - Lungsurgery on Thursday February, back to our city -Saturday. Started working Monday.
Lots of pain.
Actually, as I think about it, I am glad for the people that have a plan and really can get help and better.
Again ..thinking about it, I could get really depressed, but better not, I have to keep working......
Posted by: Charlene | Nov 23, 2021 4:54:28 PM
Wow. She sure sounds depressed to me. Trips to the beach. strip shows. Yep, damn near suicidal.
She is obviously taking advantage of Manulife. It's people like this who make it hard for the people who REALLY NEED IT. Hopefully karma comes and kicks her butt. Oops. Looks like it already did
Posted by: Gordon Richard | Nov 23, 2021 5:33:44 PM
I have had spy's parked on my street watching my home whenever I left my house. Called the Cops and said, someone was looking to break into homes on the street. When they fiinally arrived I hobbled out and explained I made the call. The Cop forced the woman to show her I.D. Turns out she was working for the insurance board. So I could walk the dog while using a rolator(walker). Then, I should be able to return to digging ditches for the city. Stories like the above create depression, which only make matters worse. Pictures do lie, and so do some people. Judge each claim by a doctors report not something you see or hear.
Posted by: Som | Nov 23, 2021 6:33:40 PM
You people really are awful. Do you have any idea what its like to live with depression? Its not 24/7 you bunch of myopic armchair doctors. Read up on some mental illnesses and get a clue, no wonder they have to run those awareness commercials, gah. The vacation was therapy, mental therapy, I should sit in a physio office and take pictures of people learning to walk again and send those in too - lazy buggers can walk see! If you know nothing about the condition then kindly keep your ill-informed opinion to yourself - you are doing nothing to help the discussion. "I knew this guy once that screwed the system" doesn't cut the mustard bub.
Posted by: Tre | Nov 23, 2021 8:38:58 PM
Manulife was right to cut her benefits. If she is allowed to con them and get away with it then what about us honest people that pay our insurance premiums? Maybe I should start getting depression too so I can take a gamble and see if my vacations get paid for. What a bunch of turd she is RIGHT to have been busted. BUSTED like the con artist that she is. Depression my *** mother******
Posted by: Kelly | Nov 23, 2021 9:48:35 PM
It doesn't matter if she is depressed. I get depressed sometimes too, but I still have to get up and go to work. People who are depressed should gets lots of sunlight (even a tanning bed 3 times a week), take Omega-3 oils (available in health food stores), watch comedies in their spare time, excersise, eat right, and (possibly) take antidepressants. Then, get up off their lazy asses and GO TO WORK! She managed to get up off her ass to have some Chippendale dick in her face, how come she can't can't get up off her ass to go to work?
Even if she really is depressed, how is moping around at home all day going to fix anything? Working will at least give her something to do and take her mind off the depression! There is NO PROVEN BENEFIT against depression from staying at home, so why should the insurance company pay for it? If she is depressed, she will probably be depressed whether she works or not, so make her work! You can bet if she didn't have disability insurance then this woman would find a way to drag herself to work like the rest off us. I'm glad her benefits were cut off. No more stripper dick for her unless she pays for it herself...
Posted by: april | Nov 23, 2021 9:58:00 PM
I agree with some of your comments but i know for a fact that depression is a hard one to battle. Until we can walk in that persons shoes we should not be judging. Just because the woman looks happy does not give us the right to judge her and diagnos her condition. I have worked with alot of people with depression, panic, anxiety etc. and i thank God that i can control mine because some people cant even think for themselves with this disease. Let the woman enjoy a vacation from her mental state of mind, at some time in our lives we all are going to hit depression.
Posted by: Depressed | Nov 24, 2021 10:38:36 AM
She is depressed she has to work, I don't blame her. I am depressed I can't find a job and I won't get any pension once i turn 65. But if I could find a job I probably would be depressed also because.. getting up early and working can be depressing too. (j/k)
Posted by: Megan | Nov 24, 2021 2:22:49 PM
I agree with manulife on this one, she appears to be in good enough form to be vacationing and enjoying the best out of life. At the same time I recognize that mental illness, is very complicated and one isn't capable of determining whether a person is suffering via a picture - but I believe that is why there is an appeal process. If she can show that she is in fact still suffering to a degree where she is unable to work, that will come out in the appeal.
A year in a half does seem extreme, I'm not suggesting depression doesn't last that long but how long should a insurance company be forced to pay benefits? 1 year, 2 years, 40 years?
All I know is that I'm pretty sure a lot of us would feel a lot better and happier if we all could go off on vacation on doctors orders.
Posted by: Tim Landry | Nov 24, 2021 2:58:30 PM
One additional comment - someone said "Trust the doctor". I hate to say thsi but the roots of this whole problem go back to doctors. The carriers I mentioned in my earlier post - Paul Revere, Provident and UNUM - had a HUGE number of doctors as clients. They felt - at one time I worked for Paul Revere so I know what they thought - that doctors would hardly EVER claim. They made so much money AND they were devoted to their patients. WHOOPS!!! Professional Liability Insurance and LAWSUITS! Doctors were faced with a choice - keep working - pay HUGE liability premiums - and face the possibility of lawsuits regularly OR "get disabled" and collect $10 or $15,000 a month or more - tax free - unseizable - for life - indexed. Guess what a LOT of them chose. Carriers originally projected 55% of a current year's premiums to be used for claims THAT YEAR. So if a carrier collected $100 million in premium in year X, they anticipated paying out $55 million in claims in year X - with the balance going to cost of doing business, cost of FUTURE CLAIMS and profit. A senior executive with a carrier was quoted as saying that if that % went to 56% it would have a significant impact on the bottom line of the company. For about 3 years - in Florida, Texas and California (Note these states are 1,3,4 in population in the US - it went to 155%. If you pay out $1.55 for every $1.00 you take in - for 3 YEARS - you cannot stay in business for long. Of course doctors had no problem getting their colleagues to sign that they were "stressed". Hence the problems we are seeing
Posted by: Tim Landry | Nov 24, 2021 3:53:57 PM
One last item: to a disability carrier Prozac or other similar medications create the same reaction as Cocaine or Heroin
Posted by: Donna | Nov 24, 2021 5:57:47 PM
I feel for Nathalie, I too was declined for my disability and it was the same insurance company. I provided all the required info required from my doctor, chiropractor, and counsellor but in the end was told that I was "faking" it. Yes I do know that some people take the system for what they can, but not all. Did I return to work as they requested - no I did not, I followed my doctors orders and stayed at home to recover, thankfully we were a 2 income family at the time. I too was told to get out and do things but was so scared that "someone" would be watching me that I never left my house. I had to be driven to all my appointments. I even went as far as to contacting a lawyer to ask what my options were, but who can afford to fight the "big" insurance companies to get ones benefits - certainly not most people, we just don't have the funds. I can't believe what Kevin A stated about her maintaining a facebook page and posting pictures - then she can work, for one it only takes minutes to do so, and secondly maybe it gave her 10 minutes of joy to relive the vacation that she went on to get away from her day to day life that's making her possibly depressed in the first place - people really shouldn't judge. This world would be so much better without it!!!
Posted by: Kim | Nov 25, 2021 4:42:53 AM
Mang Tomas: "If you're depressed then, ACT like you're depressed. Stop taking advantage of the system."
First- I do agree that far too many people take advantage, and that depression is a fairly easy disability to use to take advantage of the system, as it is relatively hard to argue with someone that they aren't really depressed.
Second- What kind of insensitive neanderthal are you? How exactly do you think people with depression should act? I have dealt with depression for the better part of eight years, and the majority of my friends would tell you that I'm generally a happy, easy going girl. That's because none of them see the struggles that I deal with on my own, I don't exactly want everyone tip-toeing around me, asking me all the time how I'm doing that day. I can have several months with next to no issues, and then plummet for several weeks. And when that happens I'm so good at hiding my depression I think I should move to Hollywood! And each case of depression can be significantly different from the last.
I'd like to believe that this girl wasn't trying to scam anyone, because really, if she was and posted pics like that on facebook, how stupid can you get? However, a year and a half is a really long time, especially in a state of depression, and if she wasn't making some progress or putting effort into a recovery then there should have been an investigation anyways. But who hasn't been screwed by an insurance company before? (and before you post that you haven't, ask yourself if you know anyone who has).