Are boomers getting too sweet a deal from OAS and CPP?

The operative word in OAS is Security. Do people making 50 thousand and more per year really need more Security ? My sole source of income is a pension that totals less than 10G per year yet my OAS has been clawed back to 800 bucks a month for the last two years. Pharmacare doesn't cover even 30% of my annual prescription bills. I am 69 this year and I can tell you I am not living high on the hog. Cut OAS completely at 50G and leave the people below that level alone or maybe even up the OAS benefit a bit for them.

Boomers might be getting a better deal now but what happens if in 15 or 20 years the younger generation decides to go on a taxpayers strike? Do the people making these decisions really think that the younger generation with their higher education levels are going to work 80 hours a week to pay higher taxes so that some retired civil servant can go to Florida for the 6th time that year? The Chinese are already demonstrating what happens to pension plans based upon copyright returns investments. The boomers should be looking to their long term future not just 5 years down the road

mike O'K - WHAT? OAS doesn't even start to get clawed back until net income is over $67K or so, so you must have net income of at least that or you would have no clawback whatsoever on you OAS.

Which is why I don't understand the issue of having to delay payment until age 67 - that makes absolutely no sense at all when there is already provision for clawback at age 65.

This looks more like a political boondogle than anything else. It was OK 8 months ago and suddenly we are on the brink of financial disaster?

Somebody need to be fired for incometency and ineptitude. Maybe several somebodies. maybe there shoudl be some test for honesty and integrity before people are allowed torun for office.

It just goes to show ya nothing is forever especially anything funded by government. People work in this country 40 years paying taxes and paying into CPP then when they get old they are considered a liability and cast aside, for shame we paid for the the generation before us. I have no problem setting a maximum income before clawback this makes sense, but lots of people have very little income when they reach 65. Now in my situation it just means I will work a little longer and some younger person will wait for the position I'm filling.
Perhaps we should look into how much money politicians make and how big their taxable allowance is, we put money away to have a pension and the stock market goes broke removing any chance of retirement now the Conservatives want to take away the security net too.

Maybe they should do away with CPP but make it manditory for us to pay and then the money I pay into it I invest that money ourself. I already pay taxes to support the disability taxes and welfare etc. If I could have invested that money myself I could retire at 60. My husband starting working at 14 years and never missed a year of paying into CPP so that is 46 years of paying into the pension fund. I think he is entitle to his money. I have also paid into the CPP for the last 40 years. Also paid into unemployement insurance all those years and never used it once so I think we are entitle to this money.

@Vivian & Others. I understand your points but we can not discriminate. If we took your advice on only what you paid into, many more citizens would live below poverty. If you are stricken with a disease or need a wheel chair for most of your life, you won't have the ability to pay very much into your retirement plan. I have always paid maximum because I was fortunate of always getting good employment. Others not so much. I will get maximum payout but I will not get any OAS which is a supplement to those not as fortunate. I don't mind that because it is called sharing the wealth no matter how much tax I pay. You get back a % in CPP what you put in up to a maximum. Trust me when I say that, in general, what you have put in over those 40 years will not come close to how much you will get back until you leave this earth. It's almost like an insurance policy. Some of us will retire and receive payments for a very short time while others will live to the age of 100. We are all entitled to a decent living but keep in mind that governments are there to help us along; not to subsidize our standard of living. It is still our responsibility to put money aside no matter how difficult it seems at the time.

My late husband died in 1984.I was a widow at 35 with two young children.Those children are now adults.I get $425 from CPP and $729 from his military pension.NOW,figure this out and tell me I am living high on the hog.He died in 1984,it's 2012.I do live in poverty.My husband was in the military 25 years and this is the thanks his widow gets for his service.28 years to get a pension up to $729 and $425..Index for cost of living is according to them,no where saves me when rent,water,electric etc. go up.THE WHOLE pension is a rip off.

@Beverly. I can not imagine the thought of losing a loved one at such an early age. You probably made many sacrifices over the years as a Military Family. We Canadians are grateful to those who serve in the Military which allows us the freedom we enjoy.
I do not want to sound heartless but I do want to address the topic at hand. From the age of 35 to your current age of 63, you had the very difficult task of "starting over" with 2 kids. I am certain it was difficult at first but it was still your responsibility to make every attempt to earn a decent living. Are we Canadians expected to pay your living expenses from the age of 35? That early Military Pension was in essence to help you "somewhat" get back on your feet so that you can find employment and provide for your family. I know of many single mothers that have 2-3 kids and earn a very good living. Their CPP will be much higher than yours because they paid more into it. The $425 you get is almost the minimum which means you did not secure consistent or good paying employment over the years. You also took an early pension which reduced the amount by 30%.The OAS and GIS will help you in a few years. Hopefuly your adult kids are able to help you in these tough times.

I'm am in the most unenviable spot I can think of. I make just over 50,000 a year ,I am 14 years before my 65 th birthday. I would like to retire then,but It is looking very bad for me. I have tried to save and do the RRSP thing but with three boys , two of witch have or are attending university and another one soon to do post secondary education,I have a real stuggle to understand how I am going to survive retirement. I do have a company pesion plan that contributes to my RRSP,but the markets have thrashed that as a hopeful topup of income.My wife has just started a full time job as we dicided to raise our children ourselves instead of a child care route.Her job has been part time until now ...she also has a a company pension that will amount to little in income. I don't want to have help from the government..All I would like to see is control of a system that everybody will take advantage of wether they need it or not.Now I'm taking well off people that don't really need the extra money. Can CPP funds be redirected if the retiree is a bizzillionaire!......The other thought is ...Flat tax rate ...everybody pays the same . let's say 20%...may be 25%. This country would be incredibly rich within 5 years...

Give us a break , why ,like someone mention are we not looking at the MPS and the MPPS, that run this country, they are wasting our tax payer money and they set back and get golden pensions at early ages, we have to wake up and smell the money going into there pockets.

Reading the above comments,one has to agree that there are different issues for the goverment to consider. The changes that the goverment is looking at, to slowly make the change, are reasonable considering that one can take benifits ahead of 65, and of course gets less but if one waits longer they should also be rewarded. Raisng the retirement age to 67, will prove usefull. It gives meaning to the powerful expertise that is being wasted when a person retires. Maybe every year after 65 a person will work a day less till retirement. Passing knowledge is also vey important to our country. Wait for a few years when all the boomer generation is retired, Try and find the work ethic that build this country.
What I am really against is the porposal by some of our MPs (who also need a reality check when it comes to thier pension), to inclue legibilility to people with 3 years of work and paying into the system only.( Is that not a vote getter scheme?). Lets be reasonable, eligability after 10 years should be a minimum maybe more, clawback at $67000 is resonable, adjustments are resonable, retirement at 67 will be a nessesity in the future to have manpower t do the work. What is not resonable are payments to people who come into this country and expect after 3 years of working here versus 10 years for eligibility to get pensions and other benifits such as refugees and illegals. This can be better spent on needy srniors which are many. Lets stay the best country in the world to live in.

What everyone is forgetting is that the CPP and OAS were set in place with the expectation that we would be paying taxes that would support them and other social programs. Instead we have allowed ourselves to be convinced that our taxes are too high. We have been cutting taxes for 15 years. We have cut corporate tax rates to obscenely low levels. With higher tax levels we could easily afford the present levels of CPP and OAS. In fact a report indicates that the OAS is sustainable.

The supporters of small government told us that the increased economic activity would create more wealth for all. We will not need government programs or pensions. The private sector would enrich us through mutual funds and the tax adjusted RRSP's. This never happened. In stead we saw financial insiders rake in billions and in 2008 crash the financial system. Government had to bail these rascals out. So now the trillions lost by these white collar criminals has become government debt. Programs are being cut and pensions are being reduced.

What we should be doing is to use the power of Government to empty the tax havens to help fill the treasuries of the Governments have been denied taxes by tax cheating rich and corporations. Government should reopen trade agreements to tip the balance of power toward them and not the Corporations. They should set tax rates that provide the support system that their people need. They could write legislation that would provide a true level playing field to compete in an appropriately regulated Capitalism.

So don't blame government as a concept. Blame instead weak kneed politicians who gave into big business and set up unfair trade deals and other agreements mostly in secret. Blame the super rich who the system is designed to serve. I am tired of the media (corporate) fiction that Government is the problem. The problem is the unstable corrupt global economic system and people who are awake are right to be outraged and on the streets protesting. They need to demand a return of Government that supports their needs and aspirations and not those of a tiny minority of hyper rich and other greedy people who have decided their personal wealth is more important than the legitimate needs of the vast majority of us.

Canada should give out Pension ONLY to those who contribute to it..Like Quebec does.
Canada gives a pension to all Canadians and that is not fair. You work..you recieve

So what are you going to do for the "stay-at-home" mothers who work in stressful positions 7 days a week but don't get paid for it? Are you going to be nasty and leave them out in the cold? Or is your answer to send their children to daycare so the children are getting raised by the system and not the parents anyway?? Is that the answer?

you can't afford them..don't have them
Not society's problem

I am not here to gloat but simply to make a few points.
@John Coutts. There are some issues to your flat tax because many now pay below that 20% while others pay more. For instance, my wife and I are lucky to both make 6 figure incomes. We both own a small business. Let's say we both make exactly 100K net. We each pay approx. $32K per year in taxes. That leaves us with 68K each to live on. I am one of those who advocates we should pay a little more taxes. Who cares if we already pay $64K a year combined. Our income allows us to live quite nicely. However, how much more is the issue?
The OAS threshold should be lowered from 67K to maybe 55K. If a Senior has a pension of 55K per year, no need to supplement their income with any Old Age Security. Transfer some, not all of those funds to the poorer seniors. All other G20 countries have raised the retirement age so why not Canada. I am OK with that but maybe wait until year 2022 to give folks the extra time to save. Yes, the MPP pensions should be addressed along with our military spending. We also need to look at some of the Teacher's wages and pensions. They provide a great service but at what cost to the tax payer. Starting pay is not that great but teachers can make up to 80-100K. Their pension is also 60% of their pay. So someone making 80-100K when retired will have a pension of $4000- $5000 per month. The same applies to other trades like the Police Force, Hydro One.... However, public servants do not get this large pension like many think because their pay scale is much lower. The Unions want higher wages which is not OK in my opinion.
In the end, we need to close the gap between the Haves & Have Nots. I know my family is fortunate but we invested a lot of money and time. We also employ a lot of people that we pay well. So please don't sling arrows my way. We might be part of that 1% but we spread the wealth quite fairly.

You are right, they aren't societies problem. So, why do you want them sent off to daycare then? Don't you want the mother at home, doing her job, taking care of the children that she decided to have? I do. However, doesn't she deserve some pay in retirement, just like you?
You may do a job, I may do a job, she also does a job. Remember also, she will not get much in retirement, only enough for sustainability, which isn't fair either because she was the person who raised those children to be well-functioning adults.

I am working all my life so she can stay home raise her kids. She getting paid by "me" the working tax payer. So when it comes down to MY retirement age, I can't take it because the "gouverment" has no money for me..is THAT fair???
My parents raised 2 kids and never depended on the gouverment for it. They worked and we were brought up just fine and did well for ourselves.
Today it is all gimme gimme. People expect the Gouverment & society to support their life styles.
If you choose to be a stay at home mother..you should be able to afford it and not depend on MY working dollars.
This country "gives" out waaay too much and people don't see it.

A research report that I read a few months ago states that the pay value of a stay at home moms work as a mother is worth $186 thousand a year. Yet she has no pension as payments are not being made into her CPP account. How does the government plan to work this into their new equations and plans. What pension figures are they going to use for the stay at home parent.

Who knows what the numbers are like in Canada (no one runs them, but they're probably the same), but boomers basically have everything and the young basically have nothing. The degree of difference? A multiple of 46.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/story/2011-11-06/wealth-gap-young-old/51098910/1

I CAN somewhat sympathize with the argument, "They've worked their whole life.... contributed... so should benefit, etc, etc". But the flip side of that argument is it was during this time that the unsustainable welfare state was established... by the politicians whose mandates they supported. This has put the country in a tough position, and the 'giving' can't continue as it has before. Why should they be immune from the inevitable cutbacks? As per Steven R.... their generation has had it pretty good, and still continue to. We 40-somethings will never see the prosperity they have... give US a break!

An, it actually costs the taxpayer more to send the child to daycare. It just ends up being under a different name in the gov't offices. By the way, for the very small bit that a woman will get from OAS, it is not considered a "lifestyle," as you want to put it. They do not have a great life.
You are priviledged to be able to choose the career you want according to your wishes. A mother does not get to choose her lifestyle (only hope that she was smart enough to pick a husband who makes good $$. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.) or the personalities of her children.
YOU seem to be the person who is very narcissistic.
For the small bit a woman will get from OAS, you wouldn't even notice it came off of your large papycheck (in comparison.)

I think that "residency eligibilty in Canada" should be raised to 7 or 10 years ,in order to qualify for CPP & OAS.That way Canada does not end up with new immigrants that are in their late 50's,who come here in order to be able to collect CPP & OAS "soon".
I have paid into the system for 41 years & now have the present gov't planning on cutting the OAS.
The rules for politicians to collect pension need to be changed..................... you get elected for a total of 10 years (or more) ..then YOU get the pension.
We have to wait till age 60 to qualify;so why not them??

Lindsay

Get a job and pay in like everyone else. Your reward for being a stay at home mom is spending more time with your kids, not a free ride. The majority of families NEED both parents working. You should be factoring in payments for YOUR OWN pension in the cost of staying home when determining if being a stay at home mom is the right choice economically for your family.

I would just like to say that I feel money should be reserved for those who are Canadian. I have nothing against immigrants but I do know many people whose family has come here and gets a pension just for being here. To me that is unfair.

It is today's generation that is spoiled. They want everything for nothing.
Baby boomers worked hard with very little hand outs and help.

And don't get me started on Welfare!
It should be like in the States. You get it for 2 yrs to HELP you find another alternative not a PERMANANT solution for you to sit back and rake the tax payers once again!
THIS is why the CPP has problems!
We choose our careers, you CHOOSE to be a stay at home parent.You don't have the cash for it..stop making babies and begining society for help in raising them.

@idon'tcareanymore..Boom! Well said!l

Just cut out all our politicians fat paycheques (Harper gets $360,000/year, on top of a huge retirement package when we finally boot his pathetic ass, not to mention all the bribes he takes from the corporations that put him in power in the first place.. oh sorry, replace 'bribe' with 'lobby money'... then replace 'lobby money' with 'bribe').

Just take that away. NO politician deserves income more than what an average Canadian gets. They've already shown how much they blow on travel expenses and G8 summmits of OUR money.

In fact. Cut out this robbery of taxing a man (woman) on his sweat (personal income) and start increasing our sales taxes, introducing luxury and convenience taxes for the rich to start paying a fair share for once. I mean, giving tax breaks to the rich isn't doing us any good. They just horde the money or ship it overseas to make more money for themselves. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a fair and balanced tax act dontcha think?

Wake up people, it's time to rebel. It's time to civilly disobey and help out the next generation and the next before it's too late. Quit being so apathetic and so submissive. Take a stick and go bang down doors. Take your money out of the bank so they can't make a dime off you, quit paying interest rates altogether and push to deprivatise our banking system. It should be owned and controlled by the PEOPLE of this country, not already wealthy slave owners (if you pay interest on ANYTHING, then you ARE a slave).

We need to switch our country to a resource based economy and get off the no-real-value-paper-money system we use today. Interest rates are the charge of the devils!

Freedom is in your hands. Take it out of theirs!

The system is not perfect but our social safety net is just that. Let me give you an example derived from my earlier blog. My wife and I make 100K+ each and we have kids. When we retire, we will both be able to receive full CPP and Full OAS as long as we don't go over the 67 000 retirement income (each) so that we don't get the OAS clawed back. That means living on
$134 000 in retiremnent income and we still get full OAS. Do you honestly think we should be entitled to Old Age Security with this type of income? Even if our retirement income is $80 000 per year, there is no rhyme or reason why we should get OAS. It's lots of money for 1 household. However, if we were to divorce or be single, our Retirement income would now be $40 000 each to cover living expenses for 2 houses and not just one if married. My point is this. The system was first established when families stayed together and that the Soscial Safety Net was ample to cover a decent standard of living for families. Now that approx. 47% of families are divorced, that income must now pay for 2 families instead of one. Just a thought!